1841 Census - Surrey - Owen

[Rob]

Please could someone lookup the following

William Owen
Son = James

James was born abt 1826 so would of been around 14 / 15 years in age?


I think they are on 1087_08 (St Olave and St John)

Many Thanks
Rob

[lisa23]

Hi Rob

There is a
William Owen b. 1793
Alice Owen b. 1806
Charlotte Owen b. 1824
James Owen b. 1827

Living at Bermondsey Street White Lion Court Bermondsey Surrey.
James was the only one born in county

Lisa

[Rob]

Lisa

Thanks for your quick reply.

The only thing that is still troubling me is that I found a Christening record for a James in 1826
(St Johns Horsleydown) and it says the mother is Sarah?

Not sure if this is the correct one or not.
(doesn't say who his mother is on his marriage cert)

I know he was living in Bermondsey New Road (1848)
and at 15 Townsend Street (1850's)

Do you know where Charlotte is in 1851?

[Valda]

Hi Rob

The full 1841 census entry gives William's occupation. Does this correspond to the occupation given on James' marriage certificate? Does that occupation correspond to the occuaption given on the baptism entry in the church register?

HO107 1047/2 folio 11
White Lion Court Bermondsey Street Southwark
William Owen 48  Tanner not born Surrey
Alice Owen 35  Not born Surrey
Chalotte Owen 17 Not born Surrey
James Owen 14 born Surrey

A tanner as a father would be consistant with this man's occupation.

1851 census HO107 1563 folio 16?
15 Townsend Street St George the Martyr Southwark
James Owen 23  Head Married Skinner Dockhead Southwark Surrey
Mary Owen 23 Wife Married  St George Surrey
Mary Ann E Owen 3 Daughter St George Surrey


By 1851 you would expect the Charlotte if she had survived would probably have married.

Did she register either of her parents (mother or step mother)'s deaths?


Regards

Valda

[Rob]

Valda

Thanks for the extra lookup.

On James marriage cert - it says he and his fathers profession are Leather Dressers (I think it says dressers)

On the batism entry it says the father is a Tanner.
Mother Sarah - (Looks like Sarah)  - at St Johns Horslydown, Surrey
(Still not sure this is the right person, but it was the only one I could find)

I have been unable to find the death record for William, are there any clues to where he was born?

also could find no marriage for a William or Sarah?

[Valda]

Rob

A leather dresser would be compatible with a tanner, both working and preparing leather.

If William died before the 1851 census in Bermondsey you have two possibilities for his death.

Deaths Dec 1843   
OWEN  William     Bermondsey  4 2

Deaths Sep 1848 
Owen  William     Bermondsey  4 5

and one for Alice

Deaths Sep 1847   Owen  Alice    Bermondsey  4 21   

The William and Alice found on the 1841 census, could be a second marriage for William though there are earlier possible marriages of a William Owen to an Alice on the IGI

WILLIAM OWEN
ALICE FARR 
Marriage:  30 JUL 1820   Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey

WILLIAM OWEN
ALICE JOHNSON 
Marriage:  01 AUG 1826   Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London

Considering neither William, Alice or Charlotte give Surrey as a birthplace there are plenty of possible William Owen marriages with a Sarah. e.g.

WILLIAM OWEN
SARAH KANEW   
Marriage:  24 APR 1815   Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London


Checking the same parish that James was baptised in you find this baptism

CHARLOTTE OWEN 
Birth:  25 FEB 1823   
Christening:  29 AUG 1830   Saint John Horseleydowns, Bermondsey, London
Father:  WILLIAM OWEN   
Mother:  ALICE 

If Sarah entered into the baptism register for James is an error it makes the St Mary Newington 1820 marriage a better possibility, though Charlotte's birth on the 1841 census was not born Surrey (though the 1841 census born in or out of county can be unreliable). 

Regards

Valda

[Rob]

Many Thanks Valda

Did you find any other records of a James born Saint John Horseleydowns, Bermondsey, London ?

does the online record that your using also say Sarah?

[Valda]

Hi Rob

the online index which has both baptisms is the IGI.


http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp


Regards

Valda

[Rob]

Yeah I seen these before - I thought you may of had the master fiche.

Do you know where I can get the masters from - hoping that I could find of see a bit more information for each entry.

For example I would love to know the address for Charlottes entry and if they had noted whether William was married before