the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith

[Brie]

Hi,

Like everyone else I believe the stories about gypsies taking children to be false.

However a few weeks ago I was reading the memoirs of Annie Beatrice Champion who later became a nanny (for amongst other families, the Bagots at Levens) and she describes her sister Izzy as being stolen by gypsies. She was recovered six weeks later. This would be in the 1860s.

Of course if a child was taken it's possible that gypsies were immediately blamed thus perpetuating the myth.

One other thing, does anyone know why gypsies were supposed to take children? Surely it would be another mouth to feed, another child to clothe.

Brie

[Redroger]

I think Brie it is a case of gypsies being blamed for everything. Some years ago I worked at Doncaster loco for BR. There was a persistent problem of gypsies burning cable in the vicinity. One day there was a lot of smoke from burning in the vicinity and I was asked to call out the council's emergency environmental unit. This I did and the fire was extinguished. Shortly afterwards my call was returned by the head of the unit, who told me it had been dealt with, but was on railway property and had been started by the railway civil engineers, who wanting to get rid of some toxic rubbish had burned it, knowing the gypsies on the neighbouring site would be blamed. I still wonder how many incidents in the immediate area were gypsy started, and how many by the engineers.

[Shropshire Lass]

I would like to add a little about the custom of burning homes & possessions.  My great grandmother's caravan & belongings were burnt after her death in 1988 even though it was sited in my grandparents back garden!  My gran did this because she remembered it being done all through her life and was a familiar custom to her although my Mum was upset by it as she was of a different generation.  So I can confirm that it is no myth.

My mother spent her early years in a gypsy living van.  My grandparents were Irish, living in the north of England.  When they married, they were lucky to get somewhere to rent - most places had signs up "No Irish, No children, No pets".  When the landlady realised my grandmother was pregnant, she threw them out - being Irish was bad enough, a baby was too much. 

My grand-dad met a young gypsy man in the pub who was very upset.  He had been brought up in the van by his grandmother who had just died.  He should have burnt the van but couldn't bring himself to do it.  My grand-dad offered to buy it and the offer was accepted.  My Mum and her two brothers were born in the van.  My grandmother insisted they find somewhere else to live after grand-dad set the van on fire - accidentally - for the third time.  Maybe the young man's grandmother was trying to put things right from beyond the grave!

[SKy1]

i remember when we were travlin  in the 60s a wagon being burnt, and t was off the road

[vince smith]

I think two things give rise to the " Theft of children  myth".

Firstly, Romnichal children are often born fair haired and turn dark as they get older.  when gypsy children are seen with their swarthy parents, questions are asked.  This was highlighted in the tragic Ben Needham case.  False hopes were raised each time a blond infant was spotted among Greek Gypsies.

I'm pretty certain that thefts do take place in impoverished parts of Eastern Europe though.

Secondly it has always been the gypsy way to take in orphans.  The head of one of Britains biggest construction companies was raised in this way.  The adopted child is given full Romany status.  This is one of the nicer points of our often misunderstood culture.

[Steve G]

 Just to pretty much echo Vince's words, really; Now that I'm a bit more up together than I was when I tried to phrase this in the early hours! 

 I've read a lot of the historical stuff. Good. Bad. The just plain factual. I've actually never yet came across a recorded instance of Gypsys 'stealing' a child. Simple as that. They were accused of stealing just about anything else ye care to imagine. Often, seemingly, found guilty by default of just being Gypsys. Then hung, transported of imprisoned. But, never, in my experience, for stealing a child.

 As has been asked above; Why on earth would they? What is anyone going to do with a child? Feed the damn thing like some kind of pet? It just wouldn't make sense.

 However, I recently did read an account of a child being Adopted ~ and raised and cared for, much as Vince states. This was a kiddie who had found himself in a Work House, where he was so brutally treated that he ran away and found, or was found by a family of Gypsys.

 The Mother took him in, scrubbed him clean and fed him well. When 'The Authorities' passed by, the lad was kept out of sight and thus protected till the heat died down. And he too grew up to think of himself ~ and be accepted ~ as a perfectly normal Romany.


 Incidentally; When I popped out, with my - then - curly blonde hair, it's a wonder my black haired Dad never strangled some guy! 

[Redroger]

All my family including me had curly b lond hair as small children, it darkens up or in my case vanished later on. My grand daughter 2 yesterday has blonde  hair, her mother's is black so was her father's before it retreated. Any news on surname Ayres yet?

[Steve G]

Any news on surname Ayres yet?

  Sorry, Roger. I hadn't realised ye were waiting on me there 

Ayres? Blimey. Possibly one of the better known / documented names out there? Quite often associated with Showmen / Fairs too.

 The name's recorded from way back (1500's!  ) and is still going strong out there. Crops up all over the place. But there is a notable cluster around the central southern counties. Not to be out done though, they also appear as far apart as Gloucester and Yorkshire though. Pretty well ubiquitous. Every family should have one! 

[Redroger]

Thanks for that Steve, try two more, Brignell and Cornwell. The Ayres family has lived in the Bottisham/Lode area of Cambridgeshire, appox 5 miles north of Cambridge since at least 1700, and very frequently has cross married with the Cornwells. This probably accounts for at least one dark skinned person appearing in most families in each generation.