Author Topic: Smith  (Read 18741 times)

Offline Gypsy123

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Re: Smith
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 28 February 09 22:34 GMT (UK) »
Dear Elli my Gran was a Packman the family Cathaey is on about, he did come from london as they have all said, and as far as i know we are the only Packman family Married into Gypsies so i dont think it is the same family,
Funny though my mum and Dad live in OZ they are in Melbourn

Offline Trainette

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Re: Smith
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 01 March 09 21:32 GMT (UK) »
I am also descended from the William Packman family in Devon and there is question (in my mind) about his ancestry, we always knew him to be a Gorja and as Sally will corroborate he bought some good qualities to our family however his mother was Maryann King from the Kent area, I know there are Romany "Kings" in that area and I think there could be a possibillity that she had connections to Romanies. Funny that William himself allways gravitated toward Gypsies as his first wife was Charlotte Cooper a Gypsy, when his first marriage broke up he stayed with her family and came to Devon where he had relation with another romany before eventually settleing with Louise Orchard,

Offline tiggi

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Re: Smith
« Reply #38 on: Monday 02 February 15 08:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi All

I know this post was sometime ago, but thought this might be of interest regards William Packman.

His last or known spouse Louisa Orchard was daughter of Joseph & Maggie/Margaret Smith often known as Peggy.

Peggy was sister to my Great Grandmother Betsy Smith daughters of James Smith & Eliza Scarrett

I found a couple of articles you may like to see :

The first confirms what family did living selling Fern and it is about Wm son John Packman.
The second is about the sad death of John's wife Louisa Sanders which is confirmed by the fact the first mentions her father James Sanders as John's Father in law.

Western Times 18 January 1935
Betrayed by leaves in Van- Hawker fined £25
Two large bales described as a rare pittosporum a valuable and rare shrub not native to this country ,but from New Zealand.
John Packman  a hawker of Ashbridge Westleigh near Bideford pleaded not guilty.
His father was William Packman.
They are used as decoration especially around London area ( fish markets)

The police found a quantity of evergreens were dispatched from  Junction Railway Station Barnstaple  to Davenport Smithfield Manchester and the 2 bales  in court were  recovered by Manchester police.
A search of John Packman's van found a few leaves, he denied all knowledge of the shrubs.

Packman said his father in law had been sending stuff to Manchester for 30 years, James Sanders his father in law said he sent packages and Henry Birch took them to station.

Two clerks at the station gave evidence that only John Packman did dispatch them and had for past 6 weeks only Packman had sent evergreens to Davenport

He was fined £25 or 3 mths in prison and refused time to pay.


Western Times 09 August 1935
There was a large attendance at the funeral of Mrs Louisa Packman who died in North Devon Infirmary Barnstaple at the early age of 20.
Deceased was much respected by large circle of relatives and friends and will be greatly missed.
 She leaves an infant son and husband.
The coffin was of polished oak and the breastplate bore inscription Louisa Packman died 25th July 1935.
The mourners were :
 Her husband mother and father
 Henry ,Caroline Sophia ,Betsy Susie ( brother and sisters)
Bill & Louie Packman ( mother & father in law)
Jim &  Fred Hook, Henry Birch, Charlotte Sanders ( brothers and sister in laws)
Henry & Harriet Sanders ( Uncle and Aunt)
Tom & Louie Birch ( Uncle & Aunt)
George & Louie Sanders ( Uncle & Aunt)
 Bob Penfold  (Uncle)
Genty Sanders Offie Birch Pheobe Hughes Betsy Roberts ( cousins)
Mr & Mrs George Hooke
 Mr & Mrs Edwin Orchard
Eddie & Sophia Orchard
Noah Hughes
Moses Penfold
Eddie Small
Edmond Orchard
 Ben Nelson
Joe Roberts
Bobby Small ( friends)
TENETT BUCKLAND & PLATO BUCKLAND ( MY LINEAGE)
  Buckland Smith James Stanley Lovell Loveridge Lee Cooper Penfold/Pinfold Orchard Boswell Broadway Wells
 
AREAS OF INTEREST CORNWALL DEVON

USA   Worton Stanley Joles Cooper  Jeffrey Small
 all English lines of Roms who are found in America

UK Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline tiggi

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Re: Smith
« Reply #39 on: Monday 02 February 15 08:53 GMT (UK) »
I Can tell you more regards Louisa Sanders family :

Louisa Sanders/Packman was daughter of : James Sanders & Pheobe Penfold
They married in 1899 Bideford Devon

Pheobe  Penfold was born 1878 daughter of Alfred Penfold & Louisa Small b 1850 Plymouth.

Louisa Small daughter of Cinderella Cooper & Moses Small

Alfred Penfold died 1940  Devon left his money to Harriet Penfold/Sanders wife of Henry Sanders
his daughter and Pheobe sister.

Louisa Sanders nee Packman born 1915 -mother  Pheobe Penfold
married 1834 Barnataple John Packman
John Packman remarried 1936 Susie Sanders – Louisa sister

Her siblings :

Henry Sanders married Charlotte Hooke 1922 Bideford/ Louisa brother
Caroline Sanders  married James Hooke 1922 Bideford/ Louisa sister
Betsy Sanders married Fredrick Hooke 1927 Bideford/Louisa sister
Sophia Sanders married Henry Birch 1931 Barnstaple/ Louisa sister
Susie Sanders married John Packman 1936 Barnstaple/ Louisa sister after her death.


TENETT BUCKLAND & PLATO BUCKLAND ( MY LINEAGE)
  Buckland Smith James Stanley Lovell Loveridge Lee Cooper Penfold/Pinfold Orchard Boswell Broadway Wells
 
AREAS OF INTEREST CORNWALL DEVON

USA   Worton Stanley Joles Cooper  Jeffrey Small
 all English lines of Roms who are found in America

UK Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk