Author Topic: Please identify the regiment  (Read 9159 times)

Offline scrimnet

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 23 November 08 22:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

The soldier in the photograph is not 9th Division. The size of the photograph would make the metal thistle emblem - which was worn in 1918 and not before - clear. The thing on his arm looks like a button. In the photograph, the soldier is wearing brogues and a Glengarry - rarely worn after 1915.

Also, by 1918 I would expect to see overseas chevrons and a 1914/15 ribbon - if he's been abroad.

1916 - 9th Div wore arcs, pre 1916 Regimental tartan.

15 Division - Coy insignia only for infantry - wedge and circle worn by ancillaries, not the infantry.

Aye

Tom McC


Thanks for that matey.... ;D

I had probs with 18th Div the other week...The ATN was not worn by the Inf...all sorts were worn, and this will hopefully be seen in a nice pic soon!

I did think about the chevrons, but errd towards a later date...The pic of the KOSBs has them I know and is dated 1918...

I am just a bit perplexed by the "button" thing....Could it have been "censored" to a splodge?

I do admit I am not the Guru of the Kilt that is Atom12, but I do like to look at all alternatives...Just in case! ;D ;D ;D ;D
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline scrimnet

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 23 November 08 22:07 GMT (UK) »
No! here's what you put Scrim

10th Black Watch were transferred to 66 Div, and were returned to the Western Front in July 1918...Could be a pic from then...Hence the lack of 26th Div tribal distinctions....

Reading that you'd assume  10th Divison were in 66th Division long before 1918.


Dooooh!!!

All for the want of a comma!  :o :o :o :o :o :o ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

As I read my post...They were transferred to 66th Div and returned to the Western Front...

I suppose I could have said "returned to the Western Front and transferred to 66th Div" but normally when one receives orders they tell you where to go and to whom one will be attached...Ergo transferred and then moved...But this is semantics!  :P :P :P ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline atom12

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 23 November 08 22:19 GMT (UK) »
Ha Ha Ha  8)

What are ye like! :-*

The kilt is my delight  :P
Reid: Nicol: Peterhead and Aberdeen
McDonald: Greig: Milne: Aberdeenshire
Moreland: Lanarkshire, Whitehaven in Cumbria and Ireland
Cunningham: Lanarkshire, Cumbria and Ireland
Halliday: Falkirk, Stirlingshire and Ireland
Redpath: Stirlingshire and Banbridge
McKay:

Offline Ann E

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 23 November 08 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all so much all for your input, until I posted the photo, all I knew was he was a corporal in a Scottish regiment; this has been very interesting & informative.
They say you learn something every day.
I take it his records are in the burnt records? Or are they in Scotland if they survive?
Thank again you have made my day.
 Ann E
Lacey, IOW, Lacey, Shearstone  SOM, Higgins, Tagg, Sammons, Jackson, Reeves Cowley, Wale OXFORD. Robert Collinson


Offline atom12

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #40 on: Monday 24 November 08 00:10 GMT (UK) »
Ann

His records could be amongst the burnt records, or they might even have been destroyed in the WW2 bombings.  I'm not sure if they have completed the 'W's' at Ancestry/National archives.

Here is some excerpts of your soldier’s Great War history:

The book called ‘The History of The Black Watch in the Great War, volume three, New Army’, gives the  history of the 10th Black Watch.  Walter served with the 10th Battalion from its arrival in France until it was disbanded in September, 1918.  As his MIC shows his rank was ‘Sergeant’, on entry into France, thus the photo of him as a Corporal must have been taken sometime before his entry into France.

He started off in the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, The Black Watch, stationed in Perth.  And, one can only presume, that on the formation of the 10th Battalion, or soon after, Walter was posted to them. The 10th Battalion was formed at the beginning of September 1914.  By 20th September some 400 men were sent to Shrewton in Wiltshire, where the 10th would form part of the 77th Infantry Brigade alongwith the 12th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, 11th Scottish Rifles & 8th Royal Scots Fusiliers.  The Brigade pitched camp in a low-lying meadow near Codford St. Mary.  In November, the 10th   Battalion moved to Bristol. The book (quoted above) written by General Wauchope states: “The citizens of Bristol vied with each other in hospitality to both officers and men...”  In March 1915, the Brigade was ordered to camp at Sutton Veny, near Warminster, Wiltshire, and were soon engaged in field exercises.  Similar camps extended ... and for the first time the whole of the 26th Division was concentrated, making it possible to carry out Divisional exercises. 

The 10th Battalion sailed from Folkestone to Boulogne on 20th September, 1915, arriving near midnight ... and so began their time in France.  They were held in reserve at the Battle of Loos (25th September, 1915); thereafter they played their part in trench warfare until their move to Salonika, commencing 10th November 1915 ...  returning to France via Italy in July, 1918.

On disbandment, the companies and various individuals of the 10th were sent to other battalions of the regiment.  On 29th September 1918, CSM White (among others) received orders to join the 14th Battalion, The Black Watch, who had taken part in a number of actions since their return to France from Egypt in April 1915. 

The first three companies of the 10th Battalion left camp at Abancourt on 1st October 1918 to join their respective battalions among them was  ‘C’ Company Sergeant-Major White.  On 15th October, the disbandment of the 10th Battalion was reported to the 197th Brigade.

14th Battalion: On 2nd October 1918 it moved to Locon, then to Herlies on the 4th October for 10 days; then into the front line at Ligny, relieving the 12th Battalion, Somerset Light Infantry (SLI).  October 15th – a slight advance was made east of Ligny and the following day had pushed forward to the outskirts of Haubordin (suburb of Lille).  On 17 October, “the crossing of the Haute Deule canal was secured and the 74th Division again advanced, the 14th Battalion moving to Petit Ronchin, then the next day to Ascq (on the Lille-Tournai road), eventually reaching Marquin on the 21st”.

At this time the Division was advancing on a one-battalion front, and on the 22nd, the 14th battalion took over the outpost line in front of Orcq from the 12th SLI. By this time the enemy resistance was stiffening, their trenches being well-wired and strongly manned.  The advance continued ... Tournai was evacuated by the Germans on 9th November when the 231st Brigade passed through it and formed a bridgehead east of the town, with the 55th Division on its right, and the 57th on its left, the 230th occupying the town, whilst the 229th moved forward to Lamian.

The next day, the 14th Battalion,  “with the remainder of the 229th Brigade, marched through Tournai, where it had a tremendous reception,  the skirl of the pipes and the sight of the kilted soldiers moving the population to great enthusiasm” .... The advance eastward was continued on the 11th (Nov), and the 14th  Battalion had reached the main road just west of Frasnes, when at 10.40 am, the Brigade Major brought the news that an Armistice had been signed and would come into force at 11 am ... (and still their movements continue) ....  On December 16th demobilisation commenced throughout the winter of 1918 and into the following Spring.   In March 1919, 100 men were sent to the 8th Battalion, and half a dozen officers to the 6th, then in the Army of the Rhine ....  (the history continues ....)

However, Walter’s MIC bears testimony that he was demobilised (disembodied) on 20th January, 1919.

Thank you Ann for bringing to our attention one of the lesser known battalions of The Black Watch, Royal Highland Regiment, (The Gallant Forty Twa).

Regards
Anne
Reid: Nicol: Peterhead and Aberdeen
McDonald: Greig: Milne: Aberdeenshire
Moreland: Lanarkshire, Whitehaven in Cumbria and Ireland
Cunningham: Lanarkshire, Cumbria and Ireland
Halliday: Falkirk, Stirlingshire and Ireland
Redpath: Stirlingshire and Banbridge
McKay:

Offline Ann E

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #41 on: Monday 24 November 08 15:24 GMT (UK) »
 Hi Ann,
Thank you very much, that is brilliant, it is fantastic to have some back ground history.
It goes to show if you don’t know ask on Roots web.
 Ann E
Lacey, IOW, Lacey, Shearstone  SOM, Higgins, Tagg, Sammons, Jackson, Reeves Cowley, Wale OXFORD. Robert Collinson

Offline Tom McC

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #42 on: Monday 24 November 08 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Having looked at the button-like object again; is it not a Bomber's badge? Light-coloured grenade (the circular bit) surmounted by a darker flame?

Anne E: A bomber was a soldier qualified in grenade throwing.

Stick looks a bit big to be a walking out one.  Looks more like the type carried by platoon Sergeants etc.

It is recorded that the 10th Black Watch used a fair few instructors from the Depot (3rd Battalion The Black Watch), many of which would be Special Reserve men. Special Reserve men's Regimental numbers (3rd Bn Black Watch) begin with a '3/' prefix.

Hope this is of use.

Aye

Tom McC

Offline scrimnet

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #43 on: Monday 24 November 08 20:35 GMT (UK) »
I think I'll give up on the Scots stuff..... :-[


BTW

I didn't see the grenade flame (still can't!)...I do know I am due an eye test though...
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline Ann E

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Re: Please identify the regiment
« Reply #44 on: Monday 24 November 08 23:14 GMT (UK) »
Anne, The History of The Black Watch movements fit in nicely with the marriage I found in Free BMD March ¼ 1915 (in the Farnham district ),do you know if  troops were given leave before going overseas? 
Thank you.
 Ann E
Lacey, IOW, Lacey, Shearstone  SOM, Higgins, Tagg, Sammons, Jackson, Reeves Cowley, Wale OXFORD. Robert Collinson