Charles GREEN of Thurleigh

[johnP-bedford]

..... and by the way, not every entry had an age - it must be what the vicar was told (or assumed)

John

[wdurham]

Yes, David and John - I agree that if the register is clear enough for there to be no confusion - and a second opinion also says 38! - then it must be 38, so not a transcription error at a later stage.

But I hadn't actually considered the point David made - there is an outside chance, I suppose, that the vicar couldn't read his own writing, and DID mistranscribe the age into the register from some notes he had taken at the time....

I would favour the fib, though - if you were 16 or 17 and met a 19 or 20 year old girl you fancied, would you let on you were that young? Especially if you were from different parishes and she wasn't likely to catch you out?

[osborn]

The John OSBORN who married Mary GREEN in 1815 was my 5x great grandfather.  If you would like any info re the OSBORN family please advise. 

                                                    Osborn

[osborn]

I know this is an old thread, but would there be any chance of getting details of Mary OSBORN (nee ELDERKEN) ?  I did not know that she was already a widow when she married JOHN OSBORN and had children of her own.  I would like to follow this through.  Any details would be appreciated.
                                               Osborn

[wdurham]

Hello, Osborn ....

There are two baptisms for Mary Elderkin on the IGI - both in Barham, Hunts, which is 4-5 miles from Sawtry, given in 1851 as her birthplace.

5 Jan 1775, daughter of William and Sarah
20 Feb, 1779, daughter of William and Mary

Both are entries submitted by a church member rather than official extractions, so need a pinch of salt.

This is shown by the fact that there is another baptism AFTER the second Mary:
Sarah Elderkin, 19 Sept 1779, Barham, to William and Sarah.

So were there two Williams in Barham - one married to a Sarah and the other to a Mary - or is the second "Mary" baptism in 1779 a mistake?  The Biggs family tree says that the 20 Feb baptism was in 1778, not 1779, and was an Elizabeth rather than another Mary. 

http://www.biggsworld.com/biggs2003.pdf

A William Elderkin was baptised in Sawtry on 10 Feb 1750, son of William and Eleanor. He was one of several children born to this couple, according to the IGI:

George Elderkin - Bap 18 Oct 1747 Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Bap 05 Mar 1748 Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Death: 06 Jul 1752
William Elderkin - Bap 10 Feb 1750 Sawtry
Elizabeth Elderkin - Bap 11 Feb 1753 Sawtry
Eleanor Elderkin - Bap 05 Jan 1755 Sawtry
Benjamin Elderkin - Bap 27 Oct 1756 Sawtry
Elizabeth Elderkin - Bap 27 May 1759 Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Birth: 1760 All Saints, Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Death: 19 Jun 1761
John Elderkin - Bap 08 Nov 1761 Sawtry

These are also all member entries rather than controlled extractions. There is no evidence that this William b 1750 was the William baptising children in Barham.

But the naming conventions suggest that William and Eleanor of Sawtry were the grandparents of "our" Mary who married Richard Green (and later John Osborn).

Hope this helps a little - I have not gone any further back with the Elderkins as yet, as the above all comes from non-official records and needs confirmation before going on....

Wendy

PS

For Robyn in australia (redgum) and anyone else that might still follow this thread, the Biggs family tree referenced above is based extensively on the work of June Biggs, who is acknowledged on the Biggs home page.

Robyn mentioned last year that:

"The booklet was completed Dec 1980 and many years of research must have gone into the compiling of the English records.
They date back to the 1600s and include Heath Tax returns, Letters of Administration and Parish Relief records to name only a few.
Well beyond what the internet can provide even today.
The work is attributed to "our fourth cousin who, incidently, is the secretary of the NW Kent Family History Society".
My guess is this is someone from Elizabeth's line."

Snap - the two are one and the same!  June Biggs retired from being the NWKFHS Secretary in 1985.  And yes, the Biggs do stem from Elizabeth.

[bedfordshire boy]

There's only one William Elderkin marriage in Hunts 1754-1780 - at Alconbury Weston in 1774 to Mary Oiley (Hunts Marriage Index). There are a number of Elderkin burials in AW including two Marys 28 Oct 1780 and 10 Oct 1783, before a marriage of William to Ann Sharman on 2 Feb 1784 at AW. He wasn't described as widower so perhaps it was a different William.

But was it the same William and Mary as in Barham. I have my doubts, which begs the question as to where they married.

Similarly there's no marriage of a William and Eleanor, as shown on the Biggs tree, in Hunts. (What a pity that the Biggs tree has fallen into the same trap as Ancestry transcribers by misreading Hunts for Hants and then expanding it to Hampshire. Spoils what otherwise looks to be a well researched tree)

David

[wdurham]

Hi, David -

The Alconbury Weston lot do seem to be a separate family - most of the IGI baptisms are children of George, who could be George b 1847 to William Snr and Eleanor - he baptised and buried an Eleanor in 1784, and perhaps another in 1786. He was married to a Dinah or Diana, who was buried in AW 13 Feb 1825 aged 75. George himself was probably buried 20 Dec 1810 - I say probably, because by then there was a younger George baptising children in AW, and the 1810 burial could conceivably have been an infant death, though it is not noted as such.

This younger George was born to William and Mary in 1778 - there had been other Georges born to George and Dinah and Benjamin and Ann, but they both died as infants.  (Ancestry Christening Records and Hunts Burials from FindMyPast)  Benjamin and George were probably the sons of William Snr and Eleanor.  This William is probably the one who married Mary Oiley in 1774 that you found in the HMI, and may well have been their brother.

So there were TWO Williams. One baptising children in Barham and one doing the same in AW - unless the same William was living a double life and nipping backwards and forwards between Sarah in Barham and Mary in AW!

So which William was the son of William Snr and Eleanor?  On the sheer balance of probabilities, I would guess that the William of AW, living in the same village as his two (probable) brothers Benjamin and George would be the son of William and Eleanor. Though this would only be a guess, and by no means definite.

So where did the other William come from?

I have found a marriage for the William Elderkin Jnr who married Sarah at precisely the right time - to Sarah Heaps, in Titchmarsh, Northamptonshire, on 31 Jan 1774. Titchmarsh is about 8 miles from Barham. William and Sarah's first child (so far found, that is!) was baptised a year later.

I also found a burial in Barham of Sarah Elderkin, daughter of William and Sarah on 10 Oct 1779 - presumably this is the child baptised 17 Sep 1779 by the same parents.

This proves that in 1779, William Jnr of Barham was definitely married to a Sarah, not a Mary, so the 1779 baptism of a Mary to William and Mary must be unrelated or the member contributing the entry made a mistake about the mother's name, and it was actually Sarah.

I haven't found a burial for William Jnr, but a Sarah aged 77 was buried in Spaldwick - a couple of miles from Barham - on 17 July 1829. That puts her birth at about 1752, perfect for the wife of a man born in 1751!

Interestingly there IS a burial of a William in Spaldwick, but it is probably an infant, buried 30 Mar 1812, son of (yet another) William and Mary.

As for William Snr and Eleanor, no marriage found, but they were buried in Sawtry. William on 2 Dec 1762 (this fits as there were no more baptisms after 1761, although Eleanor was young enough to have had several more) and Eleanor on 12 June 1782, a widow.

All very messy, and I'm trying to put it into some kind of order, but that's the story so far....

[Paul gen]

Robyn, I just joined so am not able to email you directly. The research you write about sounds like some done for 'A Green Tree: Australia UK USA' compiled by the Lewises in Australia with help from people in the UK and USA distributed about 1985. I have been looking at validating the information and extending it. The copy I have doesn't mention the extensive research you discuss. Can you giive me more info. Thanks Paul

[redgum]

Welcome to Roots chat Paul. You need to post 3 times before you can use the personal message system but I will  try contacting you.

I had missed seeing the 31 Aug 09 posts  so your contact has drawn my attention to them. We were away at the time and I guess they got overlooked in the  mountain of emails that I had waiting when we returned.

Firstly- Wendy, yes I am sure you are correct with the BIGGS connection. It fits with everyything I have here including personal notes I inherited. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

Now to the  3 documents I have.

The typed pages are stapled together and the cover page has GREEN FAMILY TREE 1980 (handwritten). The first page has GREEN FAMILY TREE (Bedfordshire -- South Australia) The whole booklet comprises of 11 pages. Frustratingly the Foreward has no name attached but refers to Benjamin & Hannah GREEN as "my  Great Great Grandparents " .
There is no reference to USA Greens.


Aside from the booklet their is another paper one side showing AUSTRALIAN GREEN TREE and the other GREEN TREE in BEDFORDSHIRE. The Bedfordshire Tree is detailed and gives notes attached to certain people indicating when Parish relief was received or where they resided or any other points of interest. It indicates one line sailing to America.

Yet another pile of stapled pages giving the descendants of Benjamin.

There is a note from Enid & Bill Lewis to my late mother in law re the Greens. So Paul I think you may be correct in linking it to your 1885 work by the Lewis family.

Regards
Robyn