John Anderson RNVR Auchterarder

[abe23]

This is all fascinating to read. I was not expecting the Diary to contain so much information.

As we have now reached St Vincent I thought that I would add the information I found from the Lloyds newspaper some years ago.

Shipping Gazette & Lloyd's List Weekly Summary
3 Jan 1896 to 28 Jan 1916
continued as
Lloyds List (and Shipping Gazette)
18 Feb 1916 to 29 Aug 1934

24 February 1911 p.118
   British Empire (s) St. Vincent C.V. Feb 17 3:30pm
B.E., British steamer put in with defective machinery; high-pressure cylinder cover broken, high-pressure piston broken. Has been surveyed and it is recommended cannot be repaired, will have to wait machinery from England.

   St. Vincent Feb 18
B.E.s has been surveyed. High-pressure cylinder cover broken, high-pressure piston rod bent, can be straightened. High-pressure slide or piston valve broken or out of order, feed pipes burst. Surveyors report the vessel cannot be repaired temporarily to complete voyage. New high-pressure piston, high-pressure slide or piston valve must be obtained Europe. Other minor repairs, will repair here. S.A.

17 March 1911 p.162
Further Additional Casualties.
B.E.(s) St Vincent (CV) March 16 British Empire (s) Vessel sailed. Repairs have been completed. S.A.


The s British Empire was sold in about 1916/7 and was renamed s Solar.

27 December 1918 p.3
SOLAR – Cherbourg 20 Steamer Solar entered dry-dock 8:30 am. Thirty degrees list righted in docking. Finished docking 5 pm. Survey tomorrow – Salvage Association Surveyor.

Nothing further found searching up to May 1919. Nothing found previous to 27 December. But details of casualties reported increased once WWI finishes in Nov 1918. Up until then only about 100 casualties reported per week but after increased to about 50 per week.


S.A. in earlier reports stands for Salvage Association.

I visited the docks at Grangemouth some months ago to see if I could take some photos. Unfortunately it was not possible to get access to the docks that are still in use due to security reasons. However the old docks constructed for use with the Forth Clyde Canal in the early part of the 19th century could be accessed. I have attached a couple of photos of the dock where the s British Empire could have left from. The Greenock & Grangemouth Dockyard Company, who repaired the coaster, had a fitting out facility on this dock. If the s British Empire did not leave from this dock then she would have left from the newer Carron Dock, this dock is beyond the low bridge in one of the photos.

I will now see if I can get any information on the engine, perhaps even a picture or drawing. When the coaster was built in 1902 at Garston, near Liverpool, the engine was supplied by Ross & Duncan of Glasgow.

[abe23]

Going back quite a few posts here is some more information about the car in the photograph in Stanley Park Vancouver.

I have been in contact with the person who looks after the Albion archives and he has said the following:

"The photo is of  an Albion A3. The gabled bonnet, which pre-dates Rolls Royce is a give away. The front of the radiator would have had an oval Albion badge at the top and an Albion scroll of brass fixed farther down on the grille. The coachwork could have been by one of several builders over here, or built onto a bare chassis in Canada, as coachbuilders were plentiful enough in the carriage trade.

The A3 was built from 1903 till 1915, although the production of car chassis ended in 1913. Various versions were produced, longer ones  usual for lorries. The first were only 12 hp but 1904 saw an expansion with the move to a new factory on ground level,  and increased to16hp, firstly 4 to 7 seaters, and later, 7- 15 seaters, although these were probably mainly charabancs.  The radiator frame changed over the years, later ones had blue enanmelled badges and the front had a more decorative edge, scalloped in the corners, but of course we cannot see this in the photo. Later ones were electroplated rather than polished brass.  So, between 1904 and 1913 is about as close as we can get."

From the date when the photo was taken the car must have been from 1910. I also made a final visit to the Transport Museum in Glasgow before it closed prior to moving to its new premises. The cars are apparently going to be mounted on the walls of the new museum!

Anyway I have attached a photo of the Albion A3 Model 16 horse power Tourer built in 1910 that the museum owns.

[sula sgeir]

The further  information on the British Empire extremely interesting, and the photographs of the putative departure quay. Might there be any 'harbour sailings' records locally at Grangemouth, or newspaper references to a ship heading to Vancouver from Grangemouth.

Some years ago when in London and travelling on the Docklands Light Railway through Canary Wharf area I noticed a small ship alongside one of the quays. Straightaway in my minds eye I had  John Anderson's description of when he first saw the British Empire. It was probably a fairly standard design of coaster, but that image has stayed in my memory and is what I 'see' when I re-read the journal.

Interesting too the fact that she was built in Garston, up river from Liverpool. Its an area I know having been brought up in Liverpool, after the family moved shortly after WW2 from Glasgow. However I did not know the docks area. We used to go swimming at what was known as Garston Baths. An old style Victorian place, with separate  pool for women, and v cold showers only marginally colder than the swimming pool water.

Another interesting feature of the area for me was the existence of a large Engine Shed which provide coaling and water etc for the  numerous locomotives on the extensive Mersey Dock system at the time, and of course the main line locomotives on the Liverpool - London line, the Express Service being the Red Rose. Coronation Class locomotives; and the 2-10-0 freight locos pulling enormous coal trains at a snails pace. It was 4 lines to  Ditton Junction, so always plenty of movement. Nr 1 Downline was where the Red Rose could be seen screaming past en route to London.   

       

[sula sgeir]

. . . (continued ) John Anderson's journal

The only change we managed was once or twice when some of the local fishermen came along side with Flying Fish for sale. We had very little money amongst us but we managed. The fish were not bad eating, something like mackerel, and about the same size.   One day some locals who had been fishing from their small boat not far from the ship, hooked a shark which was hanging round them.

   They threw the end of their line on board, we soon got his head above the surface and passing a rope around his body soon had him on the deck.  After he had ceased to show fight we opened up the carcass to see what was inside but found nothing unusual.     The liver was cut out for the Captain who wanted it to extract the oil.   After lying on deck for an hour or two, it was thought better to return it to the deep, hoisting it up on the rail over it went and to the surprise of everyone appeared to swim away.     The water in these parts is wonderfully clear due to the light colour of the sand on the bottom and the bright sunshine overhead.     Where we were anchored the marine creatures were not prolific, but there was always some strang fish or creature to be seen, when one peered into the depths. 

All the locals can swim in the islands; it is an interesting sight to watch the young boys dive for coins.  In the clear water they look almost like fish, you can follow every movement of their bodies as they dive in and swim down below the sinking coin - which by the way does not sink so quickly as would be expected - then turning up catch the coin with the hand and slip it into their mouth before returning to the surface.

The main island has a ridge of high hills running right across it. looking up from the harbour there is apart of the out line which bears a remarkable resemblance to a man's face, some think it resembles Napoleon.

Although lying snugly at anchor with the shore only half a mile away it was no easy matter to get there.    It meant lowering one of the boats after getting permission to use it, then some one had to bring the boat back to the ship and again the return trip had to be made, nobody was keen on this latter duty.

A few of the younger members managed to arrange a trip one Sunday and away we went to see what the place looked like. The first thing of interest was agroup of kiddies who came to have a look at us.  The little boys wore only a loin cloth around their waist, under their distended tummies.
The only building of any size in the place was the office and living quarters of the Eastern Telegraph Company. At that time there was very little if any provision for visitors.

Very soon we found ourselves passing the last scattered dwellings on the outskirts of the town and out onto the hillside beyond where we had a splendid view of the harbour with our little ship away on the far side.  We sat down for a rest watching the few locals who were to be seen. Dressed in heavy serge suits we felt anything but comfortable in the sticky heat of the afternoon and would have welcomed the shade of some nice green trees, but vegetation was very scarce in that part of the island, the only place we saw any green near was in a graveyard further up the hillside.

 As the sun gradually moved toward the hilltops a light breeze came away . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .

[sula sgeir]

That is the last page of John Anderson's journal describing his voyage to Vancouver in the Coaster British Empire. He probably wrote up the complete story but the pages are presumed lost.   

The journal entries I have transcribed have been taken from the original which was a document typed by John Anderson himself, on A5 size paper over 5 pages, which have been kept rolled as a scroll in a cardboard tube for many years. I do not think I ever saw the missing pages, and of course there is no-one now to ask of that generation in the family.

However, the journal does continue for a further 8 pages beginning a few years later at the outbreak of the First World War, and I shall transcribe these in due course. In the meantime I shall leave some time for any further entries which anyone might like to make in relation to this part of the journal - ie the Voyage to Vancouver.

[sula sgeir]

ref reply 75 of wed 9 June from malwil2.

Thank you for your message. If there are any additions to/ observations on John Anderson's journal it would be interesting to read them.  The 'blog' is the way I prefer to communicate, rather than by private posts, which I have found not to be satisfactory in some instances.     

[sula sgeir]

Re reply 75 Wed 9 June malwil2.

With regard to the downloading of the images, the only image which belongs to me is the one of John Anderson with his Eadie relations in front of the Redwood tree at Stanley Park, Vancouver. (In that I have the original photograph). If you intend to download this for commercial purposes then I shall be grateful if you would let me know, on this forum, any details beforehand.

With regard to my post immediately preceding this one, I would add further that I am unable to exchange e mails, and I no longer open pms. Computer access is by public library, and when I am in the Hebrides it can be a 2 hour round trip - so time is of the essence. Sorry if this sounds somewhat didactic, however I will be pleased to see any relevant information you might have, again ,on this forum.

Re generally;

The remit I set myself at the beginning of this narrative has more or less  turned out the way I had
hoped, in that I wanted to concentrate on John Anderson, but I had no expectation of the treasure- trove of info provided by ABE regarding the  British Empire , the Albion Car, the people in it, and the other contributor with info on the Redwood Tree, and the work by Monica in the initial stages on the documentary/ family 'who's who and whose' side, and BJB's lengthy and detailed adddresses (someone who lived in Hill street - presumably the one behind Sauchiehall street and the MacIntosh/Glasgow School Of Art),the reference to Margaret Eadie Anderson's medals, and others etc etc.

I am hoping further information/ photos might be available in the Glen Eagles House Estate records, where, as I read it John's father was gamekeeper, and his mother the head housekeeper for many years. I've seen a photograph of someone who I believe was John's father - will try and find it.

In the meantime I'll leave transcribing the next part of John Anderson's journal for a while so that any further entries on the Voyage to Vancouver/John anderson and his immediate family can be made.

At this point I would like to thank sincerely all contributors to this tribute to my Grandfather, be it posting questions for me to respond to with further information (and apologies if I have not responded, and also incorrect info supplied by me  - Monica I was 10 years out in JA's being at the Glasgow Tech College - you were right !), to those who have sent in agreat deal of info. Alot of enthusiastic work has gone into the information from alot of skilled people out there, which I here wish to acknowledge. Thank You.

 bfn.

[sula sgeir]

 sorry, I meant to say b1b2j3, rather than BJB !

[Human-project]

Hi There,

I am researching Robert Duff born in 1838 in Auchterarder or so I believe. He came to Lampton, Ontario Canada ( do not know year). He married a Canadian Margaret ... do not know her maiden name ( believe she was Irish decent). Robert was a Methodist Minster in the area of Enniskillen Ontario. They had the follwing children in the 1871 census: Mary A Duff (9), Martha J Duff (7), Elizabeth J Duff (4), Joseph B Duff (1) My Great Grandfather.
** They also had a Martha Anderson (63) living with them. This is were I think we might have a connection. 
Ring any bells with anyone ?
Alane.