Thomas Smith Bethesda

[Shamana]

Hi ,
My great grandfather Thomas Smith has said on each census return that he was born in Bethesda Caernarfon c1843, but I came home empty handed after a visit to Bangor registry office as he wasn't registered there! Gutted  He married Grace Edwards in 1852 ( I am awaiting the certificate so I will at least get his father's name,) I just wondered if there is anyone researching the 'Smiths'? and could suggest why he's not registered at Bangor.
Also Grace's father was Daniel Edwards, Mariner. I have found him on 'the smack Pearl'  I know that this vessel floundered off Penmon and three crew were saved. I don't know if he was one of those three but I know Daniel lived after this event.  I welcome any suggestions/help on how I can find out more about mariners, boats etc of that time He was living in Llanfair is Gaer Port Dinorwig.
Diolch
 

[hiraeth]

Hi Shamana

As of time of typing the Gale Newspaper Trial is still on.  the password is  "british" all lower case.  A good many years of the North Wales Chronicle searchable on the site.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/04qn/

Unfortunately not all births were registered in the early days.

Do you have Thomas Smith on any censuses before 1881?     BTW There appears to be typo on the year of marriage.      It should read 1872?

The Anglesey Record office at Llangefni has a lot of records of ships - particularly those that were registered at the Port of Beaumaris. 

Bangor, Port of Beaumaris, by M. Elis-Williams (ISBN 0 901337 46 3 - published by the Gwynedd archives 1988 is an excellent book about the shipping and shipbuilding industry in North West Wales.

Also Aled Eames wrote many articles for Maritime Wales and several books at the ships and seamen of Gwynedd and Anglesey.

HTH
Heather

[WelshGen]

Try this link
http://www.freewebs.com/welshgen/index.htm
(sorry about the music .. click at the very bottom to switch it off

[Shamana]

Thanks for the links they will be very useful 
No I haven't confirmed Thomas Smith on any census prior to1881, I did find his marriage to Grace Edwards June 1877 Bangor 11b 881 but when requested the cert from Bangor registry office they said they didn't have it  and Everton Registry office failed to supply me with Grace Edwards birth cert even though I had the date 1852 and her father was Daniel a mariner and her mother was Elizabeth aaaaargh so frustrating
so I think it's back to the drawing board for me.
Thanks again for your help 

[Mair]

with that reference you will need to go to the GRO at southport - you can order on line
the reference you are quoting volumes and page number refers to the national index as opposed to the local index hence you need to refer to southport who hold the national reg.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/order_certificates/index.asp

trust they have it - use the check references they ask - they do work

M

[stephenllanber]

Could Thomas Smith have been born in a Hamlet that is now known as Bethesda Bach. Looking at old maps it was known as just Bethesda up to 1900.

He may have been registered in Caernarfon..

[pinot]

      In 1851 one Thomas Smith aged 13 is living with his father John in Llanllechid (a village a little more than a mile from Bethesda [not Bethesda Bach]); his father and mother, El(l)in, were born in Llandegai, some two miles away in the direction of Bangor. Thomas (also the other children, John, Mary A. and Ellin) was born in Llanllechid (in which case I would have expected him to be registered at Bangor).
       Of course his age may disqualify him completely.
                           Best of luck,
                                        Pinot

[hiraeth]

Hi Shamana

FreeBMD shows a Grace Ann Edwards, registered Liverpool, June Quarter 1852, vol 8b, page 86.  Again this reference would be the one to use for the General Register Office - not the local register office.  Suggest you use the checking factor for Daniel, father, Elizabeth, Mother.

HTH
Heather

[hiraeth]

Hi Shamana

The age is out but I think this may be your Thomas in 1871 (same family as pinot found in 1851)
RG10/5733/12/16
Ellen SMITH, age 60, head, widow,born Llandygai
Thomas SMITH, age 32, son, widower,quarryman, born Llandeygai
John Smith, age 7, born Llanllechid
Catherine Smith, age 5 born Llanllechid

On Freebmd,  there is a marriage for
Thomas SMITH and Catherine WILLIAMS Bangor, Mar Q 1863, vol 11b, page 719
and a death for
Catherine SMITH, age 36, Bangor, Jun Q 1869, vol 11b, page 407
also deaths for
Ellen SMITH, age 70, Bangor, Mar Q 1881, vol 11b, 370
John SMITH, age 54, Bangor, Jun Q 1869, vol 11b, page 405

Also found the marriage of John SMITH (B) and Ellin PIERCE (S) in Llandygai Dec 18, 1835 both otp

Smith was a very rare surname in mid 19th century Caernarfonshire
There is only one Smith family listed in 1841 Llan Degai
John SMITH, rounded down age 20
Ellinor SMITH, rounded down age 25
Thomas SMITH, age 3
John SMITH, age 1
Possibly Thomas was born in 1837 just before registration or he might have been registered late.

Also, I noticed a birth for a Robert Thomas SMITH at Bangor registered Jun Q 1841, vol 27, page 298.  Have you considered/researched him at all?   I can't see a death for him but nothing seems to show in 1851.

As a matter of interest do you have the date of Thomas Smith's death/burial? 

Heather