Hi Duckweed
Gosh it can be such a web of intrigue at times!!!
Am trying to process too much information!!! And if I step into another part of the family, find more links and intrigue!!!
Talk about getting bogged down. What I find most confusing at times is when they have the same name- for example I noted two Robert Kemps... one born 1812 and the other born 1838 who married Angelina.There were obviously also two or more Charles Kemps.
For example :The Robert 1812 who appeared on a census 1841 aged 29 had father Joseph b 1778 aged 63, Mary wife aged 61 b 1780; Malin aged 32 b 1809, Robert 1812 and Henry . 22 b 1818 ( a butcher).
( I noted than the name Malin appeared again in another census as a child of someone....and being such an unusual name must have had a connection but I didn't print if off or note it as I was trying not to stray to far and wide away from the task at hand and get bogged down. I can't recall what census it was now but when i join up again will have to take a look! I think from memory that this Malin listed above married as well and had kids in a later census even though in the 1841 census he was still residing with the parents! Maybe he married late.
This is very interesting about 25 Portman Square and Sarah Jacques as a servant. And just how she ( perhaps family) comes to be associated with Charles Kemp- although it makes sense that it could be by association through employment but I don't envisage a valet chatting up a female servant in those times???.
The notes that a cousin had in her file had her her being employed at 95 Gloucester Place, Portman Square. After all there were a few misprints. So, that could be an error or then again she may have worked in more than one place who knows.
I had a look yesterday at Portman Square area 1800s and it seems as you say, very upmarket where all the Earls and Barons lived- didn't hit on no 25 though.
I wasn't aware of the Charles Kemp not being on the 1841 census in St James Place London and 1851 in Belvoir castle. The only one I sighted him on- whatever that was as I didn't take much note given he wasn't linked at that time to Mary - but I do recall this Charles as as valet just no particulars.
It is always possible as well that there is a double link between Jarvises and Kemps- like an early one and a later one- has happened in some of my family here through marriages- siblings and the like .
More interesting is who was this Sarah Jacques if she is connected to Charles Kemp and how....and who was her family exactly and what connection did they have to the Kemps?? Where did she originate and whether her parents always resided London or came from Nottingham or somewhere.
The Thorseby Park sets a common place but now am wondering what the commonality is.. although if her parents married and lived in Marylebone and Charles was working in St James Place London in 1841, perhaps they had links through the people where they worked or perhaps Charles knew Sarah's father through his work or perhaps the Kemps in Thorseby had connections with the Earl of Manvers and his lot?
I found some Jacques in Leicester on censuses but none seemed to fit directly, although I thought at the time they could be possibly related- like cousins. Also one fellow I connected with thru Genes Reunited some time , who resides near Sheffield ( Connisborough?) said it is possible but didn't have any info on a Sarah in his tree. He had a Sarah Whitaker ( brother James?? from whom he stems) in his lineage born abt the same time in relation to Sarah Whitaker ( who married a Robert Jacques Marylebone 1808) and supposedly had our Sarah).
Tis like a huge jigsaw.
Did you happen to find anything about the Kemps pre 1800 from Tickhill-George Kemp b 1781 and wife Ruth that turned up on the censuses- John b 1801, and Mary 1799. I didn't find too many Kemps born Tickhill prior to 1800 in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. I think I need to create some sort of summary sheet and any info I find re those with same name - to put it on it!!
If Charles Kemp was born Thorseby. I wonder if or how the Tickhill Kemps are linked other than through the Castle?
Kemps live in the same neighbourhood in Tickhill as George and Hannah Teasdale; Charles from Thorseby works at the Castle along with George T and, married to sister , Mary, of wife Hannah. Charles sister, Lucy Kemp also a servant to a Lady Lowther in Gloucester Square. Sarah Jacques would then know the daughter Mary Leticia Eyre, ( about the same age???)who is married to the Earl of Manvers as she is working for her father. This Earl comes from Thorseby Park..... so how well does he know the Kemps from Thoresby?
How does Sarah meet William- son of George T? Thinking.......thinking...what have we got in common here......horses... groomsman.... valets.... servants... Earls and castles..... At the races?
Perhaps The Ascot races??? What a venue ... Ahh pure supposition!!!
Am off to brew up and ponder all this- and mull it over!!!
Bronnie
