My Brick Wall. Please Help

[Cell]

Hi,
I'd really  like some suggestions for tracing this family please. I'm at a total loss with them,and perhaps someone here could suggest something  to find them which I may be totally overlooking, and have not thought of.

I can not find my Great grandmother  Florence (or her parents) in the 1881 census, or 1891. The only census I have with Florence is in 1901 when she is married with children. I have no siblings for her, and no clue about her parents family either :


Florence Rosina Batten born 17 June 1871, address 1 Goodhind st, Bristol.
mother Susannah Pattison
father Joseph batten, occupation carpenter
(info from Florence's birth cert)

in 1881 Florence should be 10 years old, I have searched for with her birth name "Batten" ( also all other  mistranscribed names that I can think of , batter, Battle , Bitten,Button etc etc,the list goes on and on. I've basically gone through the  whole alphabet ). I have searched for her using her mother's maiden name - Florence Pattison ( Patterson etc etc) . I have also searched for her using just her Christian name ( just in case her mother has re-married and Florence is going under the name of Florence Smith or whatever) . Also have searched using a wide birth range just in case the census is mistranscribed. I have also tried searching for her by her middle name , just in case she is going by her middle name Rosina.
 

1891 ,  no sign of her either . Later in 1891 ( after the census date - Oct/Dec quarter ,BedweltyMonmouthshire ) she marries an Alfred Quarman . I have searched for her using the above methods, plus the Quarman name just in case she is living with him before they are married ( can not find her soon to be husband Alfred in 1891 either, I have him in all the other census though)



1871 - I have what may be her parents ( below *), but can't  really prove it is them, even if it is them it still is not much use to me (as they are the only people in the house, no kids, or other relatives) ,as I can not trace this couple any further with the info I have. I have searched  through pages of entries for a Susannah pattison and Joseph Batten marriage ( using 1837 site) around 1871 ( when Florence was born) . I think I searched five or 6 years after 1871, and around 8or 9 years before 1971

*info :5 Morton Street
St James And St Paul
Bristol Gloucestershire

Joseph Batten Head 33  b Chew Magna Somerset . occupation Carpenter
Susan Jane Batten Wife 27 b Plymouth Devon



Births  for the parents  Joseph and SusannahI haven't searched because there are too many Joseph Batten's etc, and I have no way in knowing which  Joseph Batten is my Joseph. same goes for Susannah.


1901 - I have Florence , her husband Alfred and kids in the census, living in Glamorgan.


sorry for this long post, this is all the info I have on them. I've been trying to find Florence  ( and her parents) as a child in 1881 for almost a year now, and also 1891, and having no luck what so ever. I'm pulling my hair out over this family! 

My thoughts are these, she may be totally mistranscribed in 1881, but surely she can't be mistranscribed in 1891 too with a simple name such as Batten? Also, why would they not fill in two censuses, one maybe ,but two?? The only thing that I can think of, her mother has re-married and she is known as Florence "smith" etc.  Or perhaps I have a family of travellers ( gypsies)? . Or maybe they went to  Ireland could be another long shot.

Am I overlooking anything which is  the reason why I can't find them? I would dearly love to find them in the 1881 census to find out more about her parents, or any other siblings.

Thanks for any suggestions 

[casalguidi]

Hi Cell

Could we go back to the beginning please?

I assume that you have a birth certificte for one of Alfred & Florence's children?  And this gives the parents names as Alfred QUARMAN and Florence nee BATTEN?

Could you please post the 1901 census details - I can't find them in 1901?

Casalguidi

[katerimmer]

This is a tough one.  Do you have the names of the witnesses from Florence and Alfred's marriage certificate?  And does it give Florence and Alfred's addresses?  The only thing I could find is an entry on the IGI for Florence's baptism 10 Aug 1871 at Bristol, which gives her father's name as Joseph Batten and her mother as Susanna Jane.  There is also a baptism entry for Susanna Jane Patterson 28 Jan 1844 at Swindon, Wiltshire, parents Robert and Margaret, but whether this is the right person I can't say.

[Nicky]

LIKE THE OTHERS I CANNOT FIND ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BAPTISM AND THE MARRIAGE OF FLORENCE.

MAYBE YOU COULD POST THE 1901 CENSUS, MAY HELP.

NICKY

[Cell]

I have the birth cert of my grandmother Gladys May Quarman who was born 3rd march 1900, her father is Alfred Quarman, timberman  in coalmine,and her mother Florence Rosina Quarman formerly known as Batten (as per birth cert) .

My father as a young child  knew his grandfather  was Alfred quarman, plus some of the other siblings of his mother Gladys, who are in the census below. I also have a photo's of Alfred and some of their children, no doubt at all these are the parents.

 My father also knew his grandmother was Florence and came from the Bristol area somewhere , but  he had never heard of the Batten maiden name . Oddly enough though ,he had heard of the Pattison name being mentioned by his mother, but not  the Batten name - her mother's own  maiden name, and yet she mentioned her Grandmother's maiden name ,I find that a bit  odd.  We only found out she was Batten, when I started tracing the tree, and he went and  got the birth cert of his mother Gladys, which stated her mother was Florence Rosina Batten.

 They  ( Florence,  Alfred Quarman, my g mother and siblings) are mistranscribed in 1901 census  as Ouasman RG13/5003
living in Ynysbwl, Paget st  ( same road my Grandmother was born at), East Glamorgan.

I have Florence's birth cert which states she was born 1871 in Bristol, mother Susannah Jane Pattison,  and Joseph Batten , carpenter ( when my grandmother  Gladys was alive she  also told my mum, that her mother's lot were Pattison's, and  she my grandmother moved around a lot as a young girl, again not mentioning that her mother florence's  maiden name was Batten)

The Florence  Rosina Batten on the IG is almostly certainly the correct one. Susannah Jane Pattison is on the birth cert "Susanna Jane  on the IG is probably mistranscribed ( as they haven't got her maiden name"Pattison" either on there) , or perhaps my birth cert with the "H" for Susannah is incorrectly spelled.

Florence and Alfred's marriage is not on the IG, but I've found that in the BMD's, Bedwelty Monmouth (same place where their oldest son was born) . I haven't got their marriage cert yet, but was also thinking along the same lines for the witnesses and addresses.

Alfred would have only been 18 , nearly 19 yrs old marrying Florence. I  also have his birth cert ( and mother's cert , his parents marriage etc) , he was born in Jan 1873, and have traced him and his family "Quarman" back a bit, but at a brick wall with his wife Florence Batten and her parents susannah pattison/Joseph Batten

Image from 1901 attached below ( East glamorgan), can anyone read the birth place of Alfred H (the son) , I can't make out where in Monmouth he was born( New? something?)That may be a  big help , as I then can search that area in 1891 for them. If they are there they must be totally mistranscribed . I've searched trying all different kinds of variants  for Quarman, Batten etc and  I am drawing big  blanks. same goes for the 1881 census ( I've got Alfred in 1881 as a child, but not Florence, or her parents ( same goes for 1891). The only census I have with her in it is this 1901 one , when she is married to Alfred. Her family are one hell of a mystery to me)

Thanks  ever so much  for your help

[casalguidi]

Hi Cell

I have also had a look around for them in 1891 and still can't see anything obvious.

Quite honestly I think that the next step is to get the marriage certificate for Alfred and Florence.  Hopefully you will get another clue or two and be able to confirm that you are on the right track with both families especially given that Florence's age on the 1901 census indicates that she was probably born 1875-1876 and the birth certificate you have is for 1871.  It's not unusual for ages on census returns to be misleading I know but you do need that certificate to confirm (or otherwise) the information that you have.

Best wishes

Casalguidi

[katerimmer]

You could also try posting the image on the Monmouthshire message board to see if anybody can make out that birthplace.  I've had trouble with place names for a few of my Welsh ancestors because they tend to have a few versions of each name!

[katerimmer]

Having said that, I wonder if it could be "New Tredegar"?  If such a placename existed?

[Shirley Sweetland]

Hi Looks like New Tredegar which is in Caerphilly S. Wales but the borders were changed in the UK at some time, so could have been Monmouth!

Good Luck

SS