My Brick Wall. Please Help

[SS from The Rhondda]

New Tredegar, Monmouthshire did / does indeed exist. I was about to suggest it, too

[hlbradd]

Hi Cell

I checked Florence on Freebmd which gave me her registration district as 'Clifton'.

I  then did a 1867-1876 search on Batten births registered also in Clifton - and got 16 hits.

They can't all be from the same family (obviously), but the names are:

1867  Albert Henry
1870  Alice Emily   /     Rhoda     /  Reuben
1871  Alice Maria
(and Ernest William, Edward George, Lilian Sabrina, George Sidney, Caroline, Margaret Theodosia, etc, etc).

Thought if you could locate them on 1881 census  it might just 'throw up' your Florence, Joseph and Susanna.

Only other way round is trawl the other internet message sites to see if anyone else researching the Battens, i.e. GenesReunited, Ancestry message boards, Rootsweb, etc.

Strange as it seems to us - not everyone's heard of Rootschat yet - although I do try and spread the word where I can !

Hope this helps

Helen x

[Cell]

Thanks everbody  for all your help

The New Tredegar does explain something. Later on this family lived in the reg district Caerphilly (Glamorgan) for years, and one of the kids (the oldest Alfred H , known to my family as “Harry” (for some odd reason)worked in Bedwas pit, and was in the mining disaster/explosion of  10th Oct 1952 ( which I found was listed as being in Monmouthshire and Caerphilly/Glamorgan too, depending on what search I put in) . It Seems that too is right on the border . Harry (Alfred  H/Henry) was badly burnt in this disaster ,  I have pictures of  “Harry” before and after the accident ( one below, which was taken around  the late 30's or even 1940/41 maybe – I’m going by the age of the little boy in the photo  ,who was born around 1935 . I won’t bore you with my  mystery  old lady photo, who is either Florence, or my other G Grandmother lol ), and the other is  after 1952 when his face is all burnt, and meeting the mayor, presumably the ceremony had something to do with the survivors of this explosion in the Bedwas navigation colliery.

Thanks so much for your suggestion Helen, I never thought of that with the Batten name -[ (although I have used this technique with the more unusual names for my other lines, it didn’t dawn on me to try it with these “common” names).
Now I’ve got something else to think of.  Looking at all the names, –in  the same quarter Florence was registered there is a death of a Susan Batten age 24. In the 1871 census, I have a Susan Jane Batten age 27(whether this is my “Susannah or not) , I can’t find this Susan in any of the later censuses either, she disappears off the face of the planet. I’m now wondering if this is her in the deaths, Age is out by three years (but deaths, and censuses tend not to be too accurate on ages) .

The mystery deepens; my head is all in a buzz . Pure, pure speculation of course, and I’m probably going right off in the wrong direction here with this theory , but  now I’m thinking perhaps she died a couple months after giving  birth to Florence (Florence’s actual birth was in June , but she  falls into the July/sept  quarter in the indexes because she was registered on the 28th of  July by her mother) ,and this is why my father never knew  his grandmother Florence’s maiden name was  Batten  until he had his mum’s birth cert ,but he had heard of the Pattison name. Maybe she was brought up my her grandmother Pattison (who ever she is) , or someone in the Pattison family, and not the Batten family..

Thanks again for all your help, I most certainly will get the marriage for Alfred and Florence and see if it throws a little light on it

[Shirley Sweetland]

Hi Cell I looked up Alfred Henry QUARMAN's birth on the GRO index

He was registered in the Sept qtr 1892 at Bedwelty, Wales 11a 105? (not too clear).

Regards
SS
West Oz

[SS from The Rhondda]

...and Bedwelty is the registration district for New Tredegar

[Cell]

Hi,
Yes I've got the dates and reg districts for the  other kids ( haven't got their birth certs, except for Gladys)

Alfred Henry  Sept 1892 Bedwelty

Bertie Ernest  Sept 1894 Keynsham ( he was  probably born at oldland common, Alfred's childhood home.  Probably back at his mother's home ,who was still  living there during that period)

Ada Beatrice  June 1898 Pontypridd
Gladys may   3rd march 1900 
Edgar              sept 1901  Pontypridd        Death Aug  1956
Florence R  Dec     1903  “              “
Ivor Victor   Dec  1906   “              “
Violet Irene Dec    1908   “              “
Clifford    Aug 1913 - death  sept 1913

Donald  - birth date not  known ( have an old photo of him as young boy), but  he comes after 1901, probably after 1908


 I have traced the Quarman name   back a bit ,1794 to Alfred's  Grand father. Then  from there backwards  . I just need to 100% prove the generations I have  before Alfred's G father 1794 to 1730.
It's a relatively "easier" name to trace than most, unlike "Batten". There are not  that many "Quarman" families
 
But having said that , they are giving  me some right pains/frustrations tracing them. It didn't help when Alfred's own  parents where not married for years, just living  in sin with the Quarman name , then apart, under her maiden name, then back again  until they finally tied the knot .


I also have  Two Quarman brothers, further back,  marrying a Martha  Long and a Martha Short  - unbelievable lol .My ancestor is the Long one, my "Aunt" is the Short one    . I'm  having odd  images in my mind  of one Martha being very short in stature and the other being very tall !
lol )

  It's Florence's  lot that I'm not getting anywhere with. I'm just going around and around  in circles with them.

1901 census for Florence's  age 25 I think  must be way out . Maybe the enumerator got it wrong, or  perhaps she wouldn't admit to being older than Alfred( she should be 30 , that is if I have the correct birth cert for her,) . If I don't have the correct  birth cert and she is 25 in 1901, that would mean she would  only be around  15 when she married Alfred . ( I know girls could marry at 12 with parents consent).


Alfred should  not be  "of full age" on it ( unless he lies about his age at the time of marriage), he was just 18 going on 19

 Sometimes it  does help to put your thoughts down, enough of my  long post lol
Thanks all for your help , one marriage certificate on it's way, hopefully it will help with finding Florence's family
 

[gennig]

Hi Cell

I think you only recourse is to await the marriage certificate of Florence and Alfred.  They were both under the legal age for marriage so unless they lied, permission would have had to have been given by a guardian for the marriage to take place. 

Have you requested a search of the address where Florence Rosina was born in 1871 census.  I know families moved regularly but census was taken in April and Florence was born in June.  The ancestry site doesn't appear to have all Bristol districts. (only district 15 for Bristol)
   
The 1891 census has a number of Battens living in the Bedwellty district.  These people could be connected.  Address where Florence was living at time of marriage could be checked.

I note on the 1871 census a Joseph Batten born Devon aged 37 carpenter attached to the Royal Navy and serving on the "Blanche" situated Bass Strait, Australia. (Can't view the image so couldn't tell if he was married).   

Is the reason they are not on the census, that they travelled with him!!!

Cheers
Genni

[Cell]

Hi Genni,

 I still haven't yet come across Goodhind st in 1871 on ancestry. I haven't got to clue how to find it in  1871.


I've checked in 1881 at  1 Goodhind st , and they are not there. Desmer or Denner   family is at that address, I've looked at  the original image on ancestry and it's definitely not the Battens mistranscribed.

Yes I came across a  Joseph Batten on the ship in the Bass Straits many months ago now. There's no way of  telling if it's him.

Could be, like you have suggested , they travelled with him in 1881 etc, who knows, or perhaps my family are tinkers/travelers that did not fill out the censuses.



 

[casalguidi]

Hi Cell

If you want to try and find Goodhind Street in 1871 census:

Go to the 1881 and make a list of a number of families living in the area - that page and a few before & after. Also make a note of the streets before and after Goodhind Street.   Search for these in 1871 - there are bound to be some families still living in the same area - then just work back and forth a couple of pages to find the address.

Best wishes

Casalguidi