Need Advice on connecting HEDGES brothers #1

[casalguidi]

I haven't been able to see any more about Thomas as yet but it would appear that another Rootschatter is looking into Thomas and Eden http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,239799.msg2220778.html#msg2220778 so I have alerted Maggott to your thread.

Casalguidi

[deb usa]

Hi Jenny

I have been following the Kent thread ...also a very interesting one ...just a quick question ....

Which John Hedges married the Corke/Cooley girl?

deb

[Nennefer]

Hey Girls: 
You're both out for the night.  Anyway, I contacted a distant relative who has been doing a chart and who sent me some attachments that I can't open a few years ago.  I have contacted her again tonight.  She told me that a couple of years ago that she could trace back to Samuel Hedges in 1771.  Who knows, maybe this is the father of all the brothers!!!!!!!  Anyway, looks like we are going to solve it one way or the other. 
As for me, I was raised in Romford, Essex, and most of my mother's immediate family lived in Collier Row.  Grandfather Cumbers and Alvey owned an old pub called the Rose and Crown (according to my mother), and also owned the land near Clock House Lane, that became a housing tract after WWII.  Romford must have been a little village in those days.
When I get the chart, I will paste it on the site for you.  J.

I would be very interested in the information your distant relative has on Samuel HEDGES 1771. I'm not sure we can assume he is father to James, William, and Job just yet as I recently found a marriage for Job HEDGES that gives his father as another William HEDGES

This is how I came across it. Job HEDGES I know travelled the Essex area. According to census returns he was married to a Rose/Rosanna
His son Job HEDGES married a Phoebe and his marriage is here

Marriages Jun 1864  
 
Gumble  Phoebe    Romford  4a 124    
Hedges  Job     Romford  4a 124    

when looking for his marriage I noticed another. This...

Marriages Dec 1863  
 
Hedges  Job    Romford  4a 169    
Swan  Rosanna     Romford  4a 169  

Now I considered that It may not be the Job and Rose that I wanted as this marriage would mean they didn't marry until their 40's and long after having their children, but I took the risk and ordered the cert. here are the  details ...

Dec 28 1863
Name                    Age                Occupation     Residence       Father                 Fathers Occupation
Job HEDGES         40 Bachelor       Hawker           Romford         William HEDGES    Laborer
Rosanna SWAN    40 Widow            "                 Romford         John DAWES         Laborer

Witnesses James NICHOLS and Olive NICHOLS

Now I believe this IS Job HEDGES senior born abt. 1821 and that he had a late marriage.
If I can prove that James HEDGES and William HEDGES are brothers to Job HEDGES then their father is the William HEDGES as listed on the marriage cert. and I will have another generation back.

Can you all follow this. It is very complicated. Ahhhhh going mad.

[Nennefer]

Hi Jenny

I have been following the Kent thread ...also a very interesting one ...just a quick question ....

Which John Hedges married the Corke/Cooley girl?

deb

Ok. Right hope I can explain this in a clear way. This is what I have on my tree.

John HEDGES c 1849 married Jane Cooley c 1843 they married November 11, 1878 in Gillingham Kent.
John HEDGES is the son of William HEDGES born 1816 in Underriver Kent William was married to Frances Jennings on September 23, 1833 at Yalding Kent.

I have no children listed for them.

I have a copy of John HEDGES marriage to Jane COOLEY

Does this fit with what you know from the Kent thread. I must confess the Kent thread has me a little lost.

[deb usa]

Hi Jenny

the reason I asked is because of this from the Kent Thread . Reply #176

quote;
"So we have this family: This is Jenny's William and Family
William Hedges c 1816, Underriver, and wife Frances with
Alfred c 1844 Borstal, Kent and
John c 1848 Brenchley, Kent

and then this family (as above from the 1881):
William c 1833 Malling, and Eliza c 1834 Deptford with (amongst others)
William c 1855 Chatham
Samson c 1863 Chatham

and from your message

an earlier generation:
Thomas c1800 and Eden c 1800 Crawley with (amongst others)
Frederick c 1839, Middlesex.


I wonder whether William Hedges c 1816 from Underriver and Thomas 1800, were brothers,  and William 1833 Malling was the son of another brother, perhaps.  William 1833 is not the son of Thomas 1800 as your 1841 census seems to prove, and he's born a bit too soon to be William 1816's son.

If this is true:
That would make Frederick, living with Sarah Cooley Dalton and her husband in the 1871 a cousin of the John Hedges who marries Sarah's sister Jane.  "


My understanding of this is that John s/o your William and Fanny married Jane Cooley
Frederick is s/o Thomas and Eden

so Fred and John are cousins , therefore your William hedges is brother of Thomas hedges

am I confused or does this give us a connection that we have been looking for ?? 

deb

[Nennefer]

I wonder whether William Hedges c 1816 from Underriver and Thomas 1800, were brothers,  and William 1833 Malling was the son of another brother, perhaps.  William 1833 is not the son of Thomas 1800 as your 1841 census seems to prove, and he's born a bit too soon to be William 1816's son.

Right let me see you suggest William c 1816 from Underriver and Thomas 1800 are brothers. I can get that no problem.
what I am not understanding is your next bit - William 1833 Malling was the son of another brother
Why can't William 1832 born  Malling be William c 1816 underriver's son

The Evidence I have for William HEDGES 1816 Underriver being the father of William HEDGES 1832 Malling is from William HEDGES 1832 Marriage Cert that I have.

Nov 22 1858
Marriage at St peter st Paul Chatham
William HEDGES aged 25 Bachelor Chairbottomer Chatham Father: William HEDGES Chairbottomer
Eliza CLARK        aged 24 Spinster                       Chatham Father: James CLARK Basket Maker

I know William Hedges 1816 Underriver could only be about 16 years old when William 1832 was born but I don't have birth certs for either so ages are only Approximate. Is this marriage cert. enough to prove William is Williams father. I never questioned it before and never even thought about William 1816 being to young. Oh dear. Could William 1832's father be a differant William His occupation is correct and I have never come across another suitable candidate.

[Nennefer]

I do agree it does look like Thomas is a definite brother to William 1816 Underriver and I definitely need to know more about Thomas.
I also need to know more about this Thomas from Malling that Died age 1 in Sep quarter 1854 who's father was a James HEDGES. I wonder if I can find a record of his birth registration or christening. Going to have a hunt. 

[deb usa]

Hi jenny

I have no idea which William is which ...arrghhh getting confused .....

What I posted was a quote from the Kent thread ...it was their supposition re ..William bc 1833 not being the son of you William b 1816 ....

oooooo myyyyyyy ...where do we go next 

deb

[Nennefer]

This is so confusing I agree there. I think we just need to concentrate on linking the 4 brothers. We are so close now I can taste it.

It is my view now that we have 4 brothers

Thomas 1801
James 1815
William 1816
Job 1821

From the marriage cert of Jobs marriage to Rosanna we have the fathers name William HEDGES Labourer.

If I can find out more on both Thomas 1801 and find some evidence to prove the following that I have found on on this Baby Thomas who died in Malling in 1854. aged 1 Father of this baby is James HEDGES.

This is what the IGI has but how do I prove it is correct.
   
THOMAS HEDGES Pedigree
Male     
Event(s):
Birth:  09 MAR 1853   Panfield, Essex, England
Christening: 
Death: 
Burial: 
Parents:
Father:  JAMES HEDGES  Family
Mother:  ELIZA JENNINGS 

Can I refresh your memory William married Frances JENNINGS at Yalding her sister Harriet was witness at the wedding then Harriet JENNINGS married Elias EASTWOOD also at Yalding and the witness was James HEDGES
I always thought Eliza could be another sister and think I mentioned it in an earlier post. If the above is correct then she is a JENNINGS and James and Eliza had a son Thomas that died aged 1 in Malling. I need a birth registration for this baby.