search help required SURNAME HOLDEN

[ANGLER2]

I am looking for JOHN HOLDEN C1811  [MAKER UP] BORN DARWEN , POSSIBLE MOTHERS NAME BETTY.  I HAVE NO OTHER DETAILS OF PARENTAGE .
I WOULD ASSUME THAT BETTY  WAS ALSO FROM DARWEN AND HOPEFULLY MARRIED THERE.  PRIOR TO JOHNS BIRTH .  JOHN MARRIED A GIRL FROM BLACKROD NAMED HANNAH [NEE UNKNOWN],AND THEY MOVED TO SALFORD.THE FAMILY APPEAR IN THE 1841 CENSUS IN SALFORD .ALSO IN THE 1861 CENSUS [WHERE THEIR D.O.B ARE DIFFERENT ]
ANY HELP OF ASSISTANCE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
ANGLER2

[oldecrone]

Hi Angler2

I have an extensive tree of Darwen people including many Holdens. Can you give me the 1861 reference and I will see if I have them in my tree.

Regards

OC

[ANGLER2]

thanks for your correspondencee  oldcrone.all i have is ;-
1861 census salford address 11 paradise row ;-
 head john holden  c1805 born darwen  occup  maker up
 wife  hannah holden c1807 born blackrod
john thomas 1842 son ----[my g g grandfather]
alice  daughter c1844
and john william Holton c1848 grandson --believed to be son of mary holden 1836  daughter .  hope this helps??

[Aulus]

I know from my own experience that looking for Holdens in Blackburn and Darwen is harder than looking for a needle in a haystack (why don't we ever see haystacks any more, by the way?).  They make Smiths look like a bizarrely unusual name.

I've been ploughing through various Darwen parish and non-conformist registers collecting all my families' names.  I've now got probably hundreds of pages and haven't finished yet.  Next stage will be to type them up into a spreadsheet, so they can be sorted.

My main Holdens (there are others who marry in too) are the ancestors/descendants of:

John Holden (c. 1836-38 - before March 1884) married Betty Duckworth (1 Feb 1840 - 20 Nov 1878) at Blackburn on 25 Sep 1858.

They had seven children:
James (c. 1859 - ?)
Jane (17 Aug 1861-10 Feb 1944) m. Henry Wild (18/5/1861-21/6/1913) 23/3/1884
Ann (c. 1865 -?) m. Henry Myers Briggs (c. 1865-?) 5/7/1885
Ellen (16 July 1868 - ?) m. David Plant (25/4/1871-?) 6 Mar 1893
Richard (22 Sep 1870 - ?), m. Maria Gibbs (c. 1871-?) 25 Apr 1891
Maria (c. 1874 - ?) m. Billy Whitehead (c. 1875-?) 9 Aug 1898
Sarah (c. 1876 -?) m. Richard Hogarth (c. 1876-?) 22/11/1899

John's father was John Holden.  I think he's probably the one with wife Ann and children Mary, Richard, John, Ann on the 1851 census at Hey Fold (HO107/2261; folio 348; p. .  I wonder if he's the John Holden who marries Ann Lomax 17/12/1827 at Blackburn according to the IGI?

[oldecrone]

Aulus

Instead of doing a spreadsheet, I started a tree on Tribal Pages - free! - which has now grown to about 3000 names. My main interests are the descendants of Owd Timothy'o't'Looms, famous gateway Holden progenitor, but of course I have scooped up many other families too. There is hardly a family in Darwen who is not descended from Owd T.

I will have a look to see if your names are on there - I am just about to check Angler2's names too.

Olde Crone

[Aulus]

Yes, but if you've got a list of births and baptisms spread over say 100+ years, how are you going to sort them into family groups?  All I've done is hoovered up all the Holdens, Briggs, Wilds etc in the registers: the raw data now needs making sense of!

I have to admit I'd not heard of Owd Timothy'o't'Looms and Google doesn't exactly no much about him either!

[ANGLER2]

RE HOLDEN ;-- MY BETTY HOLDEN 'S   D.O.BIRTH IS C1786 SHE IS IN THE 1841 CENSUS LIVING WITH JOHN HOLDEN C1811 [HEAD ]
HANNAH C1811  [WIFE ]  WITH CHILDREN ;-
CHARLES AND MARY [BOTH 1836] ELISABETH 1831 AND JAMES 1832
ALL ARE SAID TO BE BORN IN LANCASHIRE .
IN THE LATER CENSUS OF 1861 JOHN IS SAID TO BE BORN DARWEN
[SO I WAS HOPING BETTY  C1786 WAS ALSO FROM THERE ]  ANGLER2

[oldecrone]

Aulus

Suggest you beg, steal or borrow a copy of the book "Darwen and Its People" by Jeremy Hunt. Long out of print, but available in Blackburn Reference Library, and also on CD.

Jeremy Hunt was a Darwen man, (18??-1887) who was obsessed with local genealogy and this book contains details of all the major family names in Darwen. The style is difficult (stream of consciousness, no punctuation, lol) but research shows this man was astonishingly accurate with regard to family details and inter-relationships going back to the early 1700s.

Another good resource is the Pole Lane Chapel Census of 1819 - about 400 family groups and lots of scurrilous detail!

Timothy Holden 1700-1792 (Owd Timothy o't'Looms) had eleven children, over 100 grand children, over 1000 great grandchildren and an ever-increasing number of great grandchildren (as relationships become clear). Timothy was almost certainly a descendant of the Manorial Holdens, but by which route is still open to debate.

 I have looked at your names but cannot identify them yet. I have put them in my tree though, with a note to say you have an interest in this family.

Olde Crone

[oldecrone]

Angler2

Sorry, I cannot identify this family either, but have put them in my tree with a note to say you have an interest.

Have you looked to see if there is a monumental inscription for this family? Sometimes it is the only way to sort the Holdens out! There may be death notices in the Darwen paper which help too.

Olde Crone