e webb died on hms captain in 1870

[jollyrob]

hello
francis james webb birth certificate has finally arrived. his mother was indeed an emily james so it looks like it is that family from the census that was found, thank you everyone, now i can try looning for relations of that generation for an e webb hms captain.
kim

[jollyrob]

hello
ok this is the info.
francis birth certificate
born 17th march 1877 at 53 princess road, plumstead, woolwich, kent (family home)
mother- emily webb formerly james.
father -james francis webb labourer,

marriage certificate for francis
francis married ellen cherryman on august 6th 1900
( i wont bother with anything about ellen - whos line i have traced back -with help- to 1512)
francis james webb aged 23 bachelor,
proffesion - machinist
resident of plumstead
father- james francis webb ( deceased) proffesion marriner

witnesses  Charles james webb and agnes maud hicks ( i think its hicks)


I did find a death record for james francis webb in 1888 woolwich death  1d 780 age 38.
which could be him - there are no siblings of francis born after 1883 that i have seen.
the only other info i have is from the census record you found. i have not been able to find that entry myself though.

thanks kim

[jollyrob]

hello
since my last email i have done some more hunting ( though still cant find anything in the 1881 census!). i have found a possible father, mother and siblings for a james francis webb born march 1849 in greenwich. i will have to order some certificates to be certain of the link but i thought i should tell you about it so you dont spend time researching anything i have already found.
John webb married mary ann (Turner or douglass) in greenwich 1838 december vol5 pg322
they have children
walter,c1840
william c 1842 ( who is in the 1851 census but not the 1861 census so may have died young)
mary ann c 1847
eliza c1848
James c 1849 ( my ancestor hopefully)
emily webb c 1856
ellen c 1857
charles 1861 ( could be the charles on my great grandfathers marriage certificate)
Amelia c 1862

i hope this is the right family. however there are still no e webb boys, so its not helping owards the hms captain link.
my father is pretty sure it is correct he has a hand made tapestry of the hms captain which has been handed down to him through his family- which is wierd to have if there is no truth in it!
kim

[Arranroots]

Hi Kim

For completeness, the 1901 confirms that Emily is widowed and that Francis has left home:

RG13/570/142/18

E WEBB H Wid 53 - cartridge bag worker - Kent Woolwich
J son U 26 - carpenter - do Plumstead
? E dau U 21 - parlour maid - do
HE son U 20 - machine hand - do

Address: Arthur Cottage, Arthur St, Plumstead


(I think the ? E daughter could be May Elizabeth, an inversion of her name order, but I didn't put that cos the first letter resembles a U !!)

Kind regards, Arranroots 

[Valda]

1851 census HO107 1586 folio 205 aged 21
? fields Greenwich (family in Greenwich on the 1861 & 1871 censuses)
John Webb 36 Head Married Coachman Cambridge
Mary Webb 31 Wife Married Hammersmith Middlesex
Walter Webb 11 Son Greenwich Kent 
William Webb 9 Son Greenwich Kent
Mary Webb 6 Daughter Deptford Kent
Elisa Webb 2  Daughter Greenwich Kent
James Webb 1 Son Greenwich Kent (11 on the 1861 census, born Greenwich, 1871 census still with his family aged 21)

Besides James Francis Webb's birth registered in Greenwich registration district (he gives Woolwich as his birth registration on later confirmed censuses) there are other James Webb births registered in Greenwich registration district.

Births Mar 1849 
Webb  James Francis    Greenwich  5 277   

Births Dec 1849   
WEBB  James William     Greenwich  5 205   

Births Mar 1850   
Webb  James Isaac     Greenwich  5 269   

Births Sep 1850 
Webb  James     Greenwich  5 211

With a birth registered in the March quarter of 1849 you might expect James Francis' age on the 1851 and 1861 censuses to be a little older than 1 (though census ages are often far from exact on censuses).

There is this family on the 1871 census. Charles was married and living in Plumstead on the 1881 census.

1871 RG10 782 folio 53
80 Beresford Road Woolwich Kent
Sarah Webb 53  Head Widow Formerly a laundress Woolwich Kent (charwoman in Plumstead on 1881 census Sarah A)
Charles Webb 18 Son Wood turner Woolwich Kent (Charles J on 1881 census married to Eliza with a one year old son)
Maria Webb 16 Daughter Woolwich Kent
Mary A Meredith 15 Niece Nursemaid London Middlesex
plus 1 boarder

the family are more difficult to find on the 1861 census.

Births Jun 1852   
Webb  Charles James     Greenwich  1d 531

Marriages Mar 1879 
WEBB  Charles James     Woolwich  1d 983
either   
MORRIS  Eliza     Woolwich  1d 983   
or
POULTON  Elizabeth     Woolwich  1d 983   


Regards

Valda

[Valda]

1851 census HO107 1589 folio 176
14 Salutatin Alley St Mary's Woolwich
James Webb 49 Head Married  Wheelwright Dorchester Dorset
Sarah Webb 33 Wife Married Woolwich Kent
Edwin Webb 19 Son Porter at furniture warehouse Bath Somerset
Edward Webb 15 Son Wheelwright Godstone Surrey
William Webb 13 Son Lad at ?shop Godstone Surrey 
Ellen Webb 11 Daughter Godstone Surrey
Henry Webb 9 Son Merstham Surrey
James Webb ? Son Woolwich Kent
Elizabeth Townsend 4 Niece Woolwich Kent

A likely second marriage for James

Births Sep 1839 
Webb  Ellen Pain    Godstone  4 135

Births Jun 1841   
Webb  Henry    Godstone  4 150
or
Births Jun 1840 
Webb  Henry    Reigate  4 341   
Webb  Henry     Reigate  4 346

Births Mar 1855   
Webb  Maria Sarah     Greenwich  1d 614

Marriages Dec 1876   (>99%)
Blayney  Frederick    Woolwich  1d 1578   
Webb  Maria Sarah D     Woolwich  1d 1578

1881 Maria was in Plumstead (5 Parry Place). Frederick Bla(y)ney was a wood turner, the same occupation as Charles James Webb, Maria's brother (in 1881 at 29 Parry Place).


1861 census RG9 4434 folio 187
Royal Navy Vessel Odin, Yantai China
Edward Webb  25 Single  Carpenters Crew Godstone, Surrey

Edward Webb born Godstone not showing on later censuses.

1861 census RG9 4439 folio 209
Royal Navy Vessel Ganges, at Sea
Edwin Webb  29 Single Carpenter's Mate (Mate)  Bath, Somerset

1881 census (onwards) in Plymouth Edwin C Webb born Bath aged 49 married pensioned carpenter's mate Royal Navy

Marriages Mar 1865   
Webb  Edwin Charles     Plymouth  5b 358 
Langmead  Agnes Emily    Plymouth  5B 358   
 

Register's of Seaman's services

Name  Webb, Edwin Charles
Place of Birth:  Bath
Continuous Service Number:  12464
Date of Volunteering:  30 January 1854
26 July 1832 ADM 139/125 

Name  Webber alias Webb, Edwin Charles
Official Number:  62532
Place of Birth:  Bath, Somerset
26 July 1832 ADM 188/42


Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Possibly second marriage for James Francis' father

Marriages Mar 1848 
WEBB  James     Greenwich  5 253
either
DOUGLASS  Sarah Ann    Greenwich  5 253
or 
Foreman  Emily Ann     Greenwich  5 253   
SUMMERFIELD  Harriet     Greenwich  5 253 


Regards

Valda 

[jollyrob]

hello Valda and everyone else.
sorry i lost the link to rootschats and then couldnt find my message ( i forgot about it being moved to armed forces). I am so excited to see your messages.
since last replying on roots chat i have ordered and recieved the marriage certificate for james francis webb and emily james. this discounted the john webb family as his father is listed as a james frnacis webb. but i then ordered his birth certificate to just to be sure, and it lists his father as james francis webb wheelwright and sarah ann webb (nee douglass) as his mother ( so definately not the john webb family). but at this point i hit a wall and i have been completely unable to trace the family in any census.
but to see your messages valda i see you have found them, i have not had a lot of time to look in any detail yet ( my 2 toddlers are on high alert at the moment!). i also notice an edwin webb ( which i hope will lead me to hms captain!!)
thank you i will keep looking and organise what you have found and then get back to you.
kim
ps this time i will bookmark this page!!

[jollyrob]

Hello
still thrilled to have found the connection( again many thanks). almost definately the right family. i am going to order the marriage certificate of james frances and sarah douglas so i can continue to trac the family tree. am worried  it may not be the right e webb as our e webb died in 1870, so couldnt have been married in 1881.
hopefully i can find the edwin webb that went down on the ship.
kim