help with a marriage

[Gadget]

It's looking more and more like pounds to me.  Could it be used in a different way meaning payment or poundage  - thus eight pounds Scots as their pounds (payment) 


Added - I've come across couples being found guilty of an irregular marriage and being fined (3 Scots pounds in 1689) and then married in C of S. Could it be a knd of fine 

[andy14]

I've just reviewed the original on sp again. On the left side are 2 columns that haven't come over on the crop one is headed discharge and the other charge. no writting in these columns but a mark in the charge colum. the column on the right is headed discharge. it says william miller consigns and pounds on 3 lines. On SP there is another record of their marriage this one is dated 17/11/1715 the other the 2/12/1715. and simply says names given up for marriage.

as to their status I'm working on that I think william is a william miller born 17/11/1696 in kirkcaldy son of john miller and jannet anderson. john miller I suspect was a ship master. and williams son who I've been following is a ship master, he was 5th son. to the william who's cert we're looking at. It appears John the father left a will, yet to be explored.

andy

[Gene-ee-us]

Could the "consigned eight pounds Scots to their parrish" be some sort of marriage bond, or surety? If they were married, maybe they got their money back, but forfeited it if they changed their minds?

Gene-ee-us

[jessden]

I think that Gene-ee-us is right in that the eight pound Scots was probably a marriage bond. They would get it back if their first child was born nine months or later from the date of the marriage. (The local midwife would be asked for an opinion if they said the child was premature)  If it turned out that the child had been conceived before marriage, the money would be forfeited as the usual monetary penalty for ante-nuptial fornication.

jessden

[grendlsmother]

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that a Scots pound was equal to an English shilling, therefore 1/20th value.

[Gene-ee-us]

I have read that the English pound was worth about 12 Scots pounds--still considerably lower. As today, though, whatever the exchange rate, I suppose the comparison would only have concerned people doing business outside Scotland, or an upper-class person with ties to England. For an ordinary Scot, a Scots pound would have been worth a pound. Eight pounds was a lot of money in a time when that was several months' wages for a male servant. These folks were apparently not your average farm labourers if they could lay down that kind of cash.

I am very curious about this eight pounds. It seems a lot for a marriage fee or a church fine, or even a bond. Is it possible that William was new to the parish and that he had to give a bond to show that he was not going to flee before the wedding--possibly leaving a woman and child to be supported by the parish?

Are there other instances of this kind of "consignment" on this page that might give a clue to its purpose? I have seen a number of Scots marriage registers, including fines for "irregular" marriages, but I haven't seen any amounts this big.

Gene-ee-us

[Gadget]

I did find the 3 Scots pounds in 1689 - fine for irregular marriage plus 'regular' marriage. (See above)

Given he was a mariner (ship master), it might well be that there was a worry that he might sail away 


Gadget

[annejs]

Hi andy14,

could the last bit be "as their pledge".  That would make sense if it was indeed a bond of some kind.

Anne

[jessden]

The record for this sort of thing would normally appear in the Kirk Session records rather than the Marriage Register for parish concerned although sometimes information does get into the wrong set of records.  The information that we were given here relates to 1715 - at this time church discipline was being strictly applied in Scotland. If a couple were found to be guilty of fornication they would be punished - perhaps by a public appearance in church and/or a monetary penalty.  The couple would not escape such penalties by getting married.  If it was suspected that this couple had offended but it could not be proved beyond doubt, the eight pounds would be retained until it was clear that the first child had been conceived after marriage. If so they would get it back.  If not then the money would usually go into the fund for helping the poor of the parish.

jessden