Completed. Framesmith & Lace Manufacturers, Leicester, Nottingham, Devon & Paris

[Framesmiths1816]

Hi Mike,
Now I am back home I can look at my notes again. I have a little of the Ambrose Brewin tree recorded. Ambrose Junior's mother was Elizabeth Cartright. It is possible she is connected to the Cartright family that moved to Loughborough who also held FWK patents and became part of the Warner - Cartright Textile company of Loughborough.

Our Brewin's are from Castle Donnington originally and I cannot find an obvious connection to Ambrose. Like you say, Brewin is quite common around Leicestershire, like Warner also.

It is interesting that your Quail's were Baptists. So were our Framesmiths and I believe a very high number of the Loughborough Exodus were also. We were very fortunate that the Tiverton Baptist records duplicated the birth information for nearly all of our family members that were born before June 1816 in Shepshed and Loughborough and very luck as the Loughborough PB records are lost for this period. I think I read somewhere that new members of the church had their details entered into the book even if they had been Baptized elsewhere.

As I understand it, there were 10 Framesmiths that initially went to Tiverton and each were contracted for a year except one, who was contracted for 7 years. Some of them were re-contracted and other news one added, so it is possible that your John Quail came later. I think my GGGG Grandfather Isaac might have been the one contracted for 7 years although I have no proof other than that he worked for Heathcoat from 1816 in Tiverton and was still working for him in Paris in 1826 when his daughter Selina was born. Isaac eventually became a Lace Manufacturer himself and took his work to German Town, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA where he eventually died in 1856. There is a a document in Devon records office signed by Isaac and John Heathcote (note : most records for Heathcote listed in the National Archive and elsewhere are listed under Heathcoat (spelling)).

Did your John Quail return to Leicester or did he settle in Devon or elsewhere?

Best regards - Mark

[MikeG]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply.  Most interesting.

John Quail & family moved from Tiverton to Taunton between 1822 and 1827.  Then between 1838 and 1841, they moved up to Bristol, where he died in 1854.

I've never found his baptism or a record of his birth.  From the censuses, he appears to have been born in Hinckley around 1802.  So I was interested in your comment about the Tiverton Baptist records.  I wonder whether he might be mentioned there.

Have you found any family information in the National Archives relating to the framesmiths, or is it just background historical stuff ?

I haven't found any of my Brewins in Castle Donnington.  The furthest back is Jacob Brewin, who married Elizabeth Gilbert in Packington in 1732.

Best wishes,

Mike

[Framesmiths1816]

Hi Mike,

Yes, the National Archive (online) has references to documents held in other records offices as well as in Kew. Through the NA I found that Devon records office holds some Heathcote/Heathcoat doc's including one with Isaac Warner. I think the NA also holds the Heathcote Family Documents. There are a number of Documents that relate to Framesmiths in Tiverton. I have a list of Seven so far but Quail is not amongst them becasue these date from about 1816/1819.

Did you know that John Heathcote's brother Thomas had a Lace Mill in Barnstaple. I think they lived in Pilton. His wife, Alice Hutchinson, came from Long Whatton and is also noted as being a Bobbin Net Manufacturer. I am not sure about Taunton but I think there was one in Chard. I think there are two records offices for Devon, Exeter and Barnstaple. I don't know about Sommerset as I have not had reason to research there myself.

Mark

[MikeG]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info.  I didn't know about the Barnstable Record Office, so that could be useful for the future.  Judging by the way my chap moved around, and since I believe he was probably a journeyman, he could have spent some time in Barnstable.

The Somerset Record Office is in Taunton.  A lot of my family came from Somerset, so I've spent some time there.  They insist that if you are handling original manuscripts there, you have to wear gloves, which they will provide if you haven't any, so I'm always amused by the "celebrities" on the television who are shown handling priceless and irreplaceable manuscripts using their bare hands !

Tiverton, Chard and Taunton were all lace making centres, so no surprise when framesmiths turn up at any or all of them.  One of my Quail family married into the Jackson family and settled in Chard.

I tried searching TNA catalogue for Heathcoat, but it said it couldn't find anything.  I think it must be me !    I'll have another go sometime and see whether I was doing something silly !

Best wishes,

Mike

[Framesmiths1816]

Hi Mike,

Assumming we are going to the same website try http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and enter John Heathcoat for example which returned 508 matches. Some are for other Heatcotes such as his grandson, John Heathcote-Amory. Item 1 is Devon records office - Devon Lace Manufacturers. On the same first page (5th item) is also a reference to Rawleigh Mills Barnstaple.

Interestingly this may be of interest to you on the same page http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?queryType=1&resultcount=1&Edoc_Id=230784
Is is the Will of John Heathcote 1814 Hosier of Hinckley

It is always worth trying different search combinations to thin down the results i.e. Heathcoat Tiverton, John Heathcoat, Heathcoat plus anything of interest. He also had an establishment in London so you will see London references. Also remember the name spelling variations. Heathcoat returns more than Heathcote but both will return different valid items.

ATB - Mark

[MikeG]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the link.  Yes, that works for me.  The link that didn't work was:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp

This claims to be the former PROCAT search, but doesn't appear to work.  Anyway, using your link worked fine and I browsed through the results.  Lots of interesting stuff there.  I might see if I can get down to the Devon Record Office sometime and have a look through the references that they hold there.  A task for the summer perhaps.

Best wishes,

Mike

[rmorley206]

Mark

I was reading part of a Oct 98 thread of yours last night where you mention a relationship in your family with William Morley (1785 -1855) partner in "Boden & Morley" of Derby . ( You call it "Bowden").

Research has shown me that I am a gt gt gt grandson of this William Morley. I have been able to get in touch with one or two other decendents of William.

I would like to make direct contact with you to offer to swap info.  I am too new to this group to really know how to do that. Hopefully you can have access to my tree which I have called "William Morley"

regards

Richard

[Framesmiths1816]

Hi Richard,

I should probably go back and amend that entry. Research with the help of a number of Rootschatters has shown that I had made an error. Unfortunately it also has brought me to a dead end on that particular line and changed the place of origin from Nottingtam to Derby for my Morleys. They also appear to be in the Workhouse due to an early death of a husband (Unidentified) before 1841.

Sorry - Mark (also about my terrible spelling/typing)

[rmorley206]

Hi Mark

and thanks for the reply. Sorry that this looks like a "no match".

Mine were Nottingham origin (possibly Cotgrave) but William Lived in Derby from early 1820s to 1854 not far from his & Boden's  factory.
He is also referred to as "William Morley of Lenton Grove" but I am not clear how long his association with that area & house lasted .
Cerainly not workhouse material at that time.

Thanks & best wishes

Richard