Author Topic: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh  (Read 44889 times)

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #45 on: Friday 01 October 10 07:57 BST (UK) »
cajondy - the original poster was last on line Saturday 18 September 10 13:37 BST (UK)
timba - also researching the same family last on line Tuesday 14 September 10 10:34 BST (UK)


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Offline heywood

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #46 on: Friday 01 October 10 09:01 BST (UK) »
Hello Rol,

I do feel duty bound to acknowledge your efforts in this case, albeit I am but a minor player in these events. ::)
I too get involved sometimes and I know the hours which can be spent just doing online research to help people, nevermind the very detailed report you have made.
I did try to keep up with your findings but confess to frailty of spirit since I have no real interest in any of this and I fell by the wayside somewhere around Cernioge Mawr. ;)
However, suffice it to say, my interest was rekindled when I inferred from your notes that I think you agree with my feeling that she was illegitimate and was the Margaret Jones. This suggestion, I think, I made a long time ago.
During this research I was just intrigued by the name 'Hussey de Burgh' which has such a wonderful ring to it  :D and wondered how Margaret could just assume the surname without the consent of the family. That was simply why I got involved. :o

regards
heywood
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Offline Rol

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #47 on: Saturday 02 October 10 06:06 BST (UK) »


Hello All,


Yes,  even when the New Post notifications are working (as Wilcoxon to some degree infers),  there can still be many wholly understandable reasons for a period of nil reaction on a thread;  and I am entirely relaxed about that.  I suppose I was just using the opening offered by Hiraeth's kind words to poke some mild fun -- by putting a wryly mischievous spin on how that silence could appear. ;)

Glad North Wales has lured you back,  Heywood,  and thank you too for the nice comments.  You were certainly the first to spot where the maternal part of the solution probably lay,  and I was keen to give the full chapter-and-verse reference to what you wrote and when you wrote it (Reply 34 -- deep in the Cernioge Mawr thicket . . . ;)).

On the question of
... I was just intrigued by the name 'Hussey de Burgh' which has such a wonderful ring to it  :D and wondered how Margaret could just assume the surname without the consent of the family. That was simply why I got involved. :o ...
In France and similar jurisdictions where naming patterns are often strictly regulated,  she might never have been allowed to do so;  but in the common law tradition I think that people can mostly pick the ensign they like and just run it up the mast.  I suppose the grandly-named Yorkshireman in the the second volume of Osbert Sitwell's autobiography,  The Scarlet Tree (1946),  is as good an example as any,  and right on-topic:  he just seems to have decided that "Count de Burgh" would suit him nicely.  See my Reply 27 above -- although unfortunately the link there to the Google Books partial view of Paul Fussell's 1990 book about WW2 (where the Sitwell passage about de Burgh was cited) no longer seems to be operative,  at least on my machine.

In many ways it is excellent that Margaret did choose to style herself MHB rather than Margaret Jones:  it strikes me as a fine act of defiance to the world -- with the added advantage for us a century and a half on that the family tradition about her paternity has beaten the odds and been preserved.


Rol



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Offline Cajondy

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #48 on: Monday 25 October 10 21:54 BST (UK) »
Rol, Heywood, Heather
first and foremost - HUGE apologies for the month's silence from me - personal circumstances have prohibited my being able to log on and access Rootschat until now

Next  MASSIVE thanks for all this superb information - I've read, re-read and will need to further re-read to ensure I digest it all. Your time (which I know must have been considerable) and efforts are hugely appreciated.

Unfortunately I am only able to get to Wales around about the last summer bank holiday each year - and I only had time to visit Cernioge Mawr area this year (in the hopes the chapel may reveal more information) - sadly, the chapel is now a doestic abode and by the time of day I got there I had no chance of getting to the nearest records office. Top on my list for my trip next August for sure!

I am determined to get to the bottom of the Hussey Burgh challenge - and your help has been very kind and welcomed - thank you.... I will be back on here again soon - hopefully with further progress
the eternal optimist
Cajondy
Jones - Llangernieuw,llanynys, llanrhaiadr, bangor
Foulkes - Nantglyn, Llanrhaiadr
Williams - Anglesey, Bangor
Hussey Burgh - unknown
Eames - Poss Ireland, Pwllheli, Bangor
Bateman - Westmorland
Dobson - Westmorland
Capstick - Westmorland
Dacre - Cumberland
Gainford - Cumberland
Shackley - Cumberland
Diamond - Cumberland
Harrington - Cumberland
Russell - Cumberland


Offline Rol

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #49 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 05:07 BST (UK) »


Welcome back,  Cajondy!

Very glad to hear that "real life" has loosened its grip a bit and given you some time to come and see what has been afoot at Pentrefoelas -- quite a bit to digest at one go. :)  As to
... HUGE apologies for the month's silence from me - personal circumstances have prohibited my being able to log on and access Rootschat until now
don't worry in the least;  I meant it when I wrote
even when the New Post notifications are working ... ,  there can still be many wholly understandable reasons for a period of nil reaction on a thread;  and I am entirely relaxed about that.
-- and "real life" imposes itself on us all from time to time. ;)

As to
I've read, re-read and will need to further re-read to ensure I digest it all. ... I am determined to get to the bottom of the Hussey Burgh challenge
we'll be interested to hear your additional comments and questions once you have had the opportunity to absorb the latest info more fully.  Hope you will agree that the ID of MHB's mother is now reasonably secure,  albeit so far without much of a maternal line further back.

On the paternal side,  we all know that it may never be possible to prove much,  aside from the family tradition;  but if you want to keep at it (bravo!),  I suppose a reasonable "next move" would be to try and track down John Hamilton* HdB's family papers,  on the off-chance that some evidence of support payments or an annuity (or simply tell-tale correspondence) might have survived.  Even if not catalogued,  they could still be sitting unnoticed in the old family solicitors' dusty cellar.  First steps in that direction might be:

(1)  a post asking for help on the main R/chat Irish board,  setting out John's full details (incl. Burke's IFR 1976 etc),  with a cross-ref. link to this thread;

(2)  contact the Irish heritage centres local to his two houses;

(3)  try to trace and contact his living descendants as disclosed in IFR 1976;

(4)  find out whether an entry for a will in his name appears in the printed annual calendars of grants for the Dublin PPR.  (If surviving,  grant should disclose name of solicitor dealing with the matter -- can then use annual Law Lists to identify current successor firm;  or approach Irish Law Society for advice/assistance via their internal practice succession records.)

If a will was made,  key Q is,  did it get safely preserved at a local registry -- or,  more likely,  go to the principal registry and get burnt in the Four Courts fire of 1922 (if so, talk to Irish National Archives in case a copy has been discovered and handed in to them,  as per NAI's standing appeal to lawyers to try and re-constitute the lost records).

In your shoes I would also want to uncover more about Walter HdB's Russian trip in the early 1840s and Albert's birth there.  Did John Hamilton* HdB come too?  Could any passport or visa papers mention the names of accompanying servants?  . . .  et cetera.  If you decide to go down that angle of attack too,  just let me know;  I can probably point you at some possible sources at Kew and Guildhall/LMA.

With luck other contributors may have different/better ideas for you to pursue.


Rol



* (not John Hammond HdeB,  as originally typed) -- Corrected 11.xii.10





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Offline Cajondy

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 11:32 BST (UK) »
Rol
thank you for your continued interest and support in this - it is indeed a puzzle

I'm hoping that "real life" will settle down a little during the next couple of weeks and I'll be able to take the time your previous updates deserves to properly read through and absorb. Times like this I wish I'd won the lottery and could devote my entire time to this research - it's fascinating for sure!

will be in touch again soon
kindest.......
Cajondy
Jones - Llangernieuw,llanynys, llanrhaiadr, bangor
Foulkes - Nantglyn, Llanrhaiadr
Williams - Anglesey, Bangor
Hussey Burgh - unknown
Eames - Poss Ireland, Pwllheli, Bangor
Bateman - Westmorland
Dobson - Westmorland
Capstick - Westmorland
Dacre - Cumberland
Gainford - Cumberland
Shackley - Cumberland
Diamond - Cumberland
Harrington - Cumberland
Russell - Cumberland

Offline peterc99

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #51 on: Monday 15 November 10 04:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,  Could there be a family connection between Ulyses Hubert Burgh born 1850 Caernarvon and Ulysses(Baron Downs) Burgh married 1846 St. Geo Han Sq and the Hussey family (descended from Earls) in county Kerry?
Yes they are all "cousins" descended from Rt Rev Ulysses Burgh, of Dromkeen, Bishop of Ardagh (abt 1640-1692).  Ignatius Hussey (of Donore, co Kildare-abt 1682-1743) married Elizabeth Burgh (of Oldtown, Naas, Co Kildare -1705-1757)....my 6th great grandparents.
Their son Walter Hussey-Burgh (1742-1783) assumed the name of Burgh upon the death of a maternal uncle, the Rev. Rickard Burgh, whose estates in the County of Limerick (Dromkeen) he inherited.
Wlater married Anne Burgh (his 2nd cousin). Walter's son, the Rev John Hussey-Burgh suceeded at Dromkeen and Walter (subject of this thread) was his eldest son.
Maj. General Sir Ulysses de Burgh and 2nd Lord Downes (1788-1863) married Maria Bagenal on 20 June 1815 (not 1846). They lived at Merville House in Dublin. Ulysses was the son of Thomas Burgh of Bert House and was the cousin of Elizaberth Burgh who married Ignatius Hussey.
rgds
Peter

Offline Rol

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #52 on: Monday 15 November 10 05:17 GMT (UK) »


Hello Peter,  and many thanks for posting that info,  which I think usefully sets out -- and broadly matches -- the version published in Burke.

If you have been pursuing these people for some time,  and from an Irish angle,  I wonder whether your research has already touched on any of the lines of enquiry proposed in my Reply 49 above?  It would be great to have some Hibernian expertise focused on the problem of finding the family papers and correspondence of John Hamilton* HdeB -- and their modern-day custodians.  You may have some better thoughts about the most potentially fruitful means of reaching that objective.


Rol



* (not John Hammond HdeB,  as originally typed) -- Corrected 11.xii.10



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Offline Cajondy

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Re: Meshach Williams / Margaret Hussey Burgh
« Reply #53 on: Monday 15 November 10 21:41 GMT (UK) »
Peter
you can't imagine my delight at reading your update.... Does this mean my long lost John Hussey Burgh - a merchant and father to Margaret (born c 1845) - can now successfully be tied back in to the generations of Hussey de Burghs? Would you know the lineage?

Rol
apologies - real life continues to be ever hectic - there is surely more to life than working 18 hour days in front of my laptop - I PROMISE I will make time soon (just need the next few weeks to pass) to re-read (for the umpteenth time) your massive updates and get back to you...

Kindest regards
Cajondy
Jones - Llangernieuw,llanynys, llanrhaiadr, bangor
Foulkes - Nantglyn, Llanrhaiadr
Williams - Anglesey, Bangor
Hussey Burgh - unknown
Eames - Poss Ireland, Pwllheli, Bangor
Bateman - Westmorland
Dobson - Westmorland
Capstick - Westmorland
Dacre - Cumberland
Gainford - Cumberland
Shackley - Cumberland
Diamond - Cumberland
Harrington - Cumberland
Russell - Cumberland