Donegore - Bryson-Wilson

[lmgnz]

Sorry I cannot help with the fathers of the children whose births did not name their fathers.

I can help you with the Margaret Bryson of Ballyvoy who married William Andrews in 1865. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11570/8256637.pdf

Robert's children, Martha, Margaret and John were listed in their uncle John Bryson's Will of 1859.  Martha is  probably the one who was witness in the above marriage.

The baptism of Martha Brison, daughter of Robert Brison  of Ballyvoy and his wife Ellen McConnell is in the 1st Donegore baptisms. Martha was born 14 Feb 1835 and baptised 28 March.

James Bryson married Ann McConnell of Ballyvoy in 1829. Perhaps Ellen McConnell, wife of Robert Brison of Ballyvoy belonged to the same McConnell family. Robert Brison and Ellen did not marry at 1st Donegore so I do not know  the name of Ellens father.

[Pezzy]

Thanks so much. You are brilliant:) xx

[Gilby]

Hi Pezzy,

I have the Margaret Andrew née Bryson as a 4th cousin 2x removed of Sarah Bryson (daughter of Ellen).  That is a very distant connection for Sarah to be staying with the Andrew family in 1911 for family reasons.  If Ann McConnell was a sister of Ellen McConnell, then the connection might have been something like 1st cousin 3x removed.

I have not worked out when Ellen Nevin née Bryson died.  Her husband was certainly still alive and living in Bridge Street in Ballymena in 1918 (fined for possession of a revolver – Ballymena Weekly Telegraph, 23rd Nov 1918).

You mentioned you and your daughter both match a descendant of Annie O’Hara née Bryson.  Is her match stronger than yours?  If you’ve tested on FTDNA you may be able to work out from the Chromosome Browser whether the connection is likely to be on the same line (e.g. your connection might have nothing to do with the Brysons).

Has your husband done a Y-DNA test?  That might help identify James’s father.

Who did Sarah Bryson eventually marry?

Gilby

[Pezzy]

Hi Pezzy,

I have the Margaret Andrew née Bryson as a 4th cousin 2x removed of Sarah Bryson (daughter of Ellen).  That is a very distant connection for Sarah to be staying with the Andrew family in 1911 for family reasons.  If Ann McConnell was a sister of Ellen McConnell, then the connection might have been something like 1st cousin 3x removed.

I have not worked out when Ellen Nevin née Bryson died.  Her husband was certainly still alive and living in Bridge Street in Ballymena in 1918 (fined for possession of a revolver – Ballymena Weekly Telegraph, 23rd Nov 1918).

You mentioned you and your daughter both match a descendant of Annie O’Hara née Bryson.  Is her match stronger than yours?  If you’ve tested on FTDNA you may be able to work out from the Chromosome Browser whether the connection is likely to be on the same line (e.g. your connection might have nothing to do with the Brysons).

Has your husband done a Y-DNA test?  That might help identify James’s father.

Who did Sarah Bryson eventually marry?

Gilby

Hi Gilby,

Thanks so much for this.

My daughter has a slightly weaker connection on chromosome 10 than me but then she has another connection on chromosome X and maybe another. Will need to check again.
So the additional ones may be her dad’s connection side. Depends how genes are inherited.
I have a dna kit for my husband just sitting here but he’s not done it yet. I also have a y dna test kit on its way. I have 2 sons that could take the test if needed. My husband is skeptical about security etc.

Does anyone have a tree or a diagram with the connections. I think I have myself confused which has made me have a mental block lol.

I have Irish connections but also the Brysons and other families that mixed would have come from Scotland and England. But how far back for there to be a relevant dna match? It’s also so easy to go wrong with the trees and I wonder if my family line is not accurate enough yet. My dad’s side is more Irish and I thought my mother’s side was specifically Lancashire/ Yorkshire and Scottish however it’s seems my 4x great grandparents? We’re Irish from Northern Ireland.

[Pezzy]

#130

Sarah Bryson left James Bryson in 1918 with a family or so we think. He was born at owensland at the Andrew house. Sarah came to England and married a widower who bought his young daughter into the marriage. He was Henry (or known as Harry) C Watkins. They married in 1921 in Coventry. I think this is around the time that Sarah now married came to Ireland to collect James. Why? We don’t know. Did she marry so she could get him back as I’ve been told you had to pay to get out of unmarried homes for mother and child.

James came to live with his mother Sarah and his step dad and step sister in Coventry. His stepfather added his surname on James’s birth certificate so his Bryson name became a middle name. That caused a few issues later on lol.

He wasn’t wanted and it was very obvious which is another mystery in why he was even collected. He has made comments about this family in Ireland he was left with. From what I have been told it was nice and doesn’t sound like a home for children out of wedlock etc.
I don’t really know much about that.

Clearly Ellen also had Sarah and Robert out of wedlock and living with them in 1901 so whether she used her inheritance from Robert Bryson to pay the fee to be free? That sounds like she wanted them and yet Sarah remains a Bryson and seems to be around the Andrew family more and then at least after having James it sounds like she never saw her mother again. She did visit Ireland again with her youngest son she had with her husband. She never took James.

Also Robert Nevin who was born a Bryson came to Coventry at some point and lived with them. He was known to the family as bob Nevin/ uncle Bob and Sarah’s brother.

I don’t understand why people never asked or question more back then?
Xx

[Gilby]

Thanks for the information about Sarah.

I think people were scared of the social stigma, so it was better not to talk about it at all.  Nowadays most of us think of it as an interesting back story, rather than something to be ashamed of.

My guess is it was more likely that James Bryson was left with a family (perhaps the Andrew family) rather than an institution.  If he had some fond memories of them then he probably wasn’t collected from there until a bit later, say after 1925.

If you get the chance to visit PRONI, it may be worth looking up the wills of some members of the Andrew family, e.g. John Andrew of Owensland who died in 1965.

[lmgnz]

Hi Pezzy

If your husband's line is only direct male line back to James, son of Sarah, i,e his father was a son of James, then yDNA could tell you who was the father of James. And yes your sons would get the same result if needed.

If your daughter inherited Bryson x DNA then in would only be from his mother. If your husbands mother is the  Bryson descendant then a yDNA test from your husband or sons would not help answer who was  James father.

Austosomal DNA however can answer that question and in that case you would be more likely to find answers if your husband tests as he should have more of that DNA than your children.

[Gilby]

1921 Census – Powick, Worcestershire
Henry Charles Watkins, head, 32 yrs 8 mo, widower, born Powick, Worcestershire, groundsman, working for the Humber Recreation Society.
Agnes Pruscella Watkins, dau, 3 yrs, mother dead, both St. George’s, Worcester.
Alice Sarah Watkins, mother, 61 yrs 3 mo, married, born Allensmore, Herefordshire, home duties.

1939 Register – 176 Siddeley Avenue, Coventry, Warwickshire
Henry Watkins, born 12 Oct 1889, groundsman.
Sarah Watkins, born 10 Apr 1897, unpaid domestic duties.
James Watkins, born 27 Apr 1918, aircraft wood machinist.
Agnes [P.] Jones [Watkins stoked out], born 5 Jun 1917, textile [worker].
Kenneth Watkins, born 7 Feb 1923, tool room.
Gordon Watkins, born 26 Apr 1924, at school.
Colin [Robert] Watkins, born 20 [?] Aug 1931, at school.
Robert Nevin, born 20 Sep 1898, store keeper.

[Pezzy]

1921 Census – Powick, Worcestershire
Henry Charles Watkins, head, 32 yrs 8 mo, widower, born Powick, Worcestershire, groundsman, working for the Humber Recreation Society.
Agnes Pruscella Watkins, dau, 3 yrs, mother dead, both St. George’s, Worcester.
Alice Sarah Watkins, mother, 61 yrs 3 mo, married, born Allensmore, Herefordshire, home duties.

1939 Register – 176 Siddeley Avenue, Coventry, Warwickshire
Henry Watkins, born 12 Oct 1889, groundsman.
Sarah Watkins, born 10 Apr 1897, unpaid domestic duties.
James Watkins, born 27 Apr 1918, aircraft wood machinist.
Agnes [P.] Jones [Watkins stoked out], born 5 Jun 1917, textile [worker].
Kenneth Watkins, born 7 Feb 1923, tool room.
Gordon Watkins, born 26 Apr 1924, at school.
Colin [Robert] Watkins, born 20 [?] Aug 1931, at school.
Robert Nevin, born 20 Sep 1898, store keeper.

Yep this is correct:)