A mystery ??

[Hackstaple]

Welcome jellybaby 

Can you solve a puzzle for us then. You list the children of Frederick Silver and Hannah up to one born 1825. Yet the 1861 census and the Beckenham memorial show a Frederick born 1812 and Frances born 1822. Who are they then? 

[Aniseed]

Hi Jellybaby, and welcome to Rootschat. Thanks for all that info. I wonder who it was that had the brooch made. Maybe Mary the daughter? I always love filling in details from the very barest of outlines. It's things like this that make the ancestors really come alive.

[jellybaby54]

yes I am the one from GR who gave Jen? the e mail address.
I will drag out all my paperwork from the Silver's and see if I can answer the questions people are asking. I'll try and get back to you all later this evening.

[genjen]

yes I am the one from GR who gave Jen? the e mail address.
I will drag out all my paperwork from the Silver's and see if I can answer the questions people are asking. I'll try and get back to you all later this evening.

Yep! That's me.. We're all looking forward to more on this and so glad you responded. 

[forthefamily]

Just bookmarking out of interest.

mab

[jellybaby54]

Frances Grace Silver was born in 1822 in Brighton (the same place as Ebenezar) and baptised on 27/12/1822. Note on the 1881 census she is living with Sarah Milull aged 71 born Islington who is listed as her sister. Also there is Lydia Smith aged 51 born Westminster.....Frances does not marry.

Got to go sort out a problem with the daughters car so will try and get back to you later

[jellybaby54]

not having much luck finding my paperwork except I have found the notes I made about the Chancery Case of Silver v Bye in 1837 and this may answer a few of the queries floating about.

Plaintiffs in the case were Samuel Silver and others
Defendants were Thomas Bye, George Bye, Rebecca Olney (aunt to Hannah Bye, Ann Olney married John Bye ie Hannah parents) John Harvey Olney Silver (the trouble maker) George Griffiths, SARAH SMITH (sister to Samuel and at this time a Smith before marrying Udall) Thomas Heydon and wife (Hannah Haydon as found with Frederick and Hannah on the 1841 census. She was a daughter of Fredericks who married Thomas Heydon in 1831 at St Martin in the Fields. Frederick Joseph Silver (the son b1812 named after the father and grandfather) Ann Silver, Eliza Mercy Silver, Ebenezar David Silver, Frances Grace Silver , Mary Silver.  Therefore it is most probable that the Ann and Frederick mentioned on the 1841 census are Silvers and are children of Frederick and Hannah, I suspect that the Benjamin everyone was referring to is Benjamin Heydon b1838 in Warwick (son of Thomas and Hannah)
If I remember correctly this case was about Ann Bye nee Olneys will.

As I said before Samuel and siblings were involved in many Chancery cases. Samuel was the exceutor of his mother in law Mary Innells will and was a nephew by marriage of Elizabeth Ives , who's will casued a massive chancery case that led to the changes in the law that allowed women to inherit and own property in their own right even if they were married. An original womens libber!!!

As I mentioned earlier about the 1881 census Sarah Milull (Udall)'s daughter Lydia Smith is 51 by this time so it is highly unlikely that she married and had children.

Hope this answers everyones queries and if I ever find my full notes and find anything else of interest I will get back to you all.

[jellybaby54]

in case anyone is interested in what happened to Benjamin
 Benjamin HEYDEN   Head   M   Male   43   Warwick, Warwick, England   Railway Goods Agent (Carman)     
 Sarah HEYDEN   Wife   M   Female   44   Peckham, Surrey, England   Railway Goods Agent Wife     
 Alice HEYDEN   Daur   U   Female   17   Neyland, Pembroke, Wales   Goods Agent Daur     
 Francis HEYDEN   Daur      Female   12   Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales   Scholar     
 Abigael HEYDEN   Daur      Female   11   Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales   Scholar     
 Caroline HEYDEN   Daur      Female   8   Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales   Scholar     
 Edward HEYDEN   Son      Male   3   Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales       
 Ann JONES   Serv   U   Female   28   Llangunnor, Carmarthen, Wales   General Serv Domestic     
 James CLARKES   Visitor   M   Male   27   Staveley, Derby, England   Railway Clark     
 Catherine CLARKES   Visitor   M   Female   22   Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales   Railway Clarks Wife     


~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
  Dwelling   12 Brigstocke Ter
  Census Place Carmarthen St Ishmael, Carmarthen, Wales
  Family History Library Film   1342299
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   5394 / 101
  Page Number   14

[Gaie]

Hi
I've been following this with great interest, what an intriguing thread!

So as another son John has been found, does anyone know if he had any children?

I found these census entries:

1851 Census HO107 piece 1574 folio 53 page 43
Longton Place Terrace or Street, Kennington, Surrey
John Silver Head Mar 47 Clerk out of Employment b Ely Place Holborn

1871 Census RG10 piece 733 folio 11 page 17
17 Nelson Square, Peckham (Camberwell) Surrey
John Silver Head 64 Clerk out of Employ b Holborn
Charlotte Wife 66 b Island of Malta

1881 Census RG11 piece 688 folio 10 page 13
17 Nelson Square, Peckham
John H O Silver Head 73 Gentleman b Middlesex Holborn
Charlotte Wife 78 b Malta Colony

Kind regards
Gaie