A mystery ??

[genjen]

It is dreadful handwriting on that 1851 page but it plainly doesn't say Felver or West Indies!

Not sure what it does say for Hannah's place of birth and Frederick seems to have changed nationality. He says he was born in London in the 1861 census.

I have contacted two people on GR offering them the chance to have a look at this thread or to be put in touch direct.

Here's hoping for a response.

Jen

[Hackstaple]

Cymbeline

The 1841 census is not the best possible compilation of data as we all know. In this case the enumerator simply put a lot of ditto lines down under surname. Yet we can be reasonably sure that Benjamin was not a Silver but neither can we say for sure that he was a Heydon [there is a 27 year old Ann whose surname is dittoed beneath Hannah Heydon and then comes Benjamin] although I would start there if I were tracing my own ancestors.

Even the spelling of Heydon is a bit iffy.

The 1871 census shows our Hannah Heydon visiting Elizabeth Syme, owner of a toy Bazaar at Speldhurst Kent. She is accompanied by a 12 year old Catherine Heydon. So I search for her as a daughter of Benjamin - without success.

He looks like the 13 year old, born Warwick, who is a pupil at Mr Rodbard's school in Croydon in 1851. That would make him Benjamin Rookes Frederick Heydon, registered Mar 1838 in Warwick.  But that man married in 1854 at the ridiculously young age of 16, Camberwell, Jun 1854!

Anyone else like to take my seat?

[Paul Caswell]

Sarah Udall is in 1861 at RG9/378/139/9 with:

John Udall "Merchant"
Lydia Smith (step Daughter)
Sarah A Smith (step Daughter)

Not sure if it would be possible to trace the girls but Lydia is clearly a direct descendant of Frederick Silver. Sarah Udell (nee Silver) presumably married a Smith before John Udall.

Paul

[genjen]

The tree on Ancestry shows two marriages for Sarah.

Jen

I just had another look - the first marriage is quite simply entered as Smith - no other details. her marriage to John Udall is entered as 1844.

[Aniseed]

Aniseed, could you pls contact the owner of the tree on ancestry if you have your finger on it ?  I'm having trouble finding it but i'm off for another look.  Thanks.
Jan

Ancestry's just hanging for me tonight, pretending to load but never getting there. I'll keep trying for a while longer. PM me in the meantime if you manage to find it and make contact - don't want to inundate the poor person with messages to look at Roots Chat!

Modified at 22.30h to add: Have just managed to send a message to the owner of the tree on Ancestry.

[jellybaby54]

I am linked to this family via Frederick and Hannahs son Samuel (a solictor and vicar). The Silvers were involved in a very famous Chancery case Stubbs v Sargon (amongst others).

.
Hi all,

i live on the continent and just bought a victorian mourning brooch which i found on a fleamarket which  quite intrigues me.  Its made of gold and surrounded in pearls with 2 different hair colours.   Inscribed on the back is the following:  To the affectionate memory of Frederick Silver died Oct. 7th 1864 in his 82nd year.   Also of Hannah Silver died Jan. 4th 1867 aged 80. 

Enough info. to find them on the census - only i'm not signed up at the mo. so cant access the actual cencus record for more details : -(

Does anybody think there are relatives around today who would be interested in it.   Would it be worth the bother of trying to find anyone - what do you think.  I've asked for help a couple of times before and have only met lovely people...so i wondered if you would enjoy a mystery.  I just wonder how it ended up in the middle of Europe?

Regards
.

[genjen]

Hi jellybaby,

Welcome to Rootschat. can you tell us any more about them? We are all fascinated by this mourning brooch and the story behind the people.

Jen

[jellybaby54]

Frederick Silver b 27/1/1782 in Clapham married Hannah Bye (daughter of John and Ann) on 24/8/1804 at the Holy Trinity in Clapham. Their children are Samuel (1805-1856) Joseph (1806 b& d)
John (1808-1884) Ebenezar (1820) and Mary (1825) John was a bit of a trouble maker by the looks of things as he is constantly suing his siblings over money. He never appears to actually ever work although he lists himslef as a clerk which could have meant anything from being a clergyman to being an accountant.

Samuel was a solicitor and then becomes a vicar in Cambridge. he marries twice. Firstly to Caroline Innel and then Mary Bird. They have six children between them (including another Frederick in 1842)

Frederick senior seemed to own property in Symonds Inn,Chancery Lnae and Cheapside and was a member of the board of the European Life Insurance Company in Blackfriars (his son Samuel was too).

Hope all this helps.

[genjen]

I've just had a message from one of the people on GR, giving me an email address. I have sent a PM with this info to Cymbeline so with a bit of luck, we'll find out some more about the mystery soon.

Jen

Or is that you - jellybaby?