Cranch Researcher Thanks for your input, you've solved one problem I had that was photos I had of Fred Cranch, Mum label also contained my cousin but maybe it should be Uncle if he is her Father Samuel's brother. Will need to look at the Family Tree I was provided with as there maybe a discrepancy with the earlier folk. Get back to you on that. I will l have to search shipping passenger lists to see when these folk,arrived in NZ. Samuel (born 1855) has no date of entry to NZ that I know of as he jumped ship and swam ashore to travel around under the name Billy Hare until someone convinced him to tell the family her was alive Samuel Gill (here is a record of Samuel George who is said to be brother to Fred in War Memorial WW1 records, Fred being next of kin. To Samuels and Elizabeth's children. Annie Muriel Cranch born Jan 1891 at Carterton is a real mystery to me. Will contact the Researcher at Carterton and see what if anything she can find. Mum never mentioned there being a child of that name. Their 8th child was my Mother, Vera Evelyn Mona Cranch born in 12/10/1904, she married my father Joseph Bond on 24/6/1942 and died in 1970 (can't get to room with death record as someone sleeping there will send it later) after a number of the children were married from Carterton the family moved up to Cambridge and after her mother died my mother Vera moved to Auckland where she met my father and married, when I was 3 they moved down to Nelson where they lived until their deaths. I am Mum's only child, Dad had one from first marriage, none from his third, not what it sounds like, he outlived all three, not bad for someone told at 40 they could die any time. My input to Lucy 2 was interupted mid way when my computer keyboard seized up hence no sign off or completed message. Could you please advise place of birth for Frederick George Cranch a number of others said to be born at Dartmouth, was he also.? BELLBIRD