David RICHARDSON - Hutton in the Forest

[Tunbridge]

I am looking for a birth record for David RICHARDSON, born 1818-1819 Cumberland (I think at Hutton in the Forest).  His parents were David Richardson and Sarah Monkhouse.

Also, looking for a marriage record between David Richardson and Eliza Oates, in Cumberland, about 1839.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

[GeoffE]

The IGI has a baptism
25 Dec 1818 Hutton in the Forset
David RICHARDSON, son of David and Sarah

and his parents' marriage
5 Jan 1815 at Carlisle (St Mary)

His father was in Hutton in 1841
David RICHARDSON 69 Land Agent
Joseph 18 Land Agent
plus a servant and a lab.

[AMBLY]

Hi

Followed your profile link   to your very interesting website, and after googling up some of the mammoth work you've done in tracking down this family.....wow, certainley a very intriguing mystery!

A marriage between David RICHARDSON and Eliza OATES, can't be found on FreeBMD or IGI.
Tried following up a couple of possibles for him, in case they were mistranscribed and therefore not showing up on the same page........One of the obstacles is not knowing where they may have married ....

But I don't think he was married to Eliza, maybe not ever - but at least not in 1839-ish.

For reference: from various of your messages on -line (in italics)
The family arrived in the US on 9 May 1848, on the ship "WALDRON" - on
Castle garden database:
David RICHARDSON 29, Merchant
Eliza RICHARDSON 25,
Sophia RICHARDSON 10, child
Anna RICHARDSON 8, child
David RICHARDSON 6, child
Louisa RICHARDSON 4, child
Eliza RICHARDSON infant

The 1850 Galveston Census records:
David Richardson/31/m/Eng
Eliza Richardson/28,f/Isle of Man
Sophia J./11/f/Eng
Annie/9/f/Eng
David/7m/Eng
Louisa/6/f/Eng
Eliza/4/f/Isle of Man
Frederick/2/m/La

The 1860 Galveston Census records:
D. Richardson/45/m/Ed. Galv. News/Eng
Jennie/25/f/Scot.
David/15/m/Leeds
Louisa/12/f/Leeds

David RICHARDSON died 1871 in New York City
Eliza RICHARDSON returned to England -  she is  with dau Mary & son George in 1861 Isle of man.

For their eldest daughter: there is only one Sophi* J.  RICHARDSON  who is coming up in births - registered  1840, in Marylebone - ie:  the certificate you have (had?):
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/RICHARDSON-UK/2007-07/1184817975

Sophia Jane RICHARDSON - Born: 16th March 1840
Father: David RICHARDSON
Mother: Sophia (nee SHORTS)
Registration District: Marylebone, Sub-District: St John's, County: Middlesex

MARRIAGE: Sep Qtr 1839, Bloomsbury (aka St Giles)  London Middlesex.
Sophia SHORT and Davie RICHARDSON are on the same page.

And I believe you have this couple both aged 20 with their 1 yr old dau. Sophia  in the 1841 Census in Middlesex . He's listed as a "Com  Agent**" which fits in with being listed as a "Merchant"  elsewhere, later.  And they disappear from UK Census after that single 1841.

[It says "Com", short for "Commercial"- not "Corn"]
[Or Com for "Commission" more likely - see Geoff's reply next]

I think :
As well as Sophia b 1840, children Annie/Anna, David and Louisa RICHARDSON are Sophia nee SHORTS's biological children and that she died sometime btw 1843/44 and  mid 1848.

I also think:
Eliza/Elizabeth OATES gave birth to dau Eliza b abt 1847, either: out wedlock (where the father may or may not be David RICHARDSON)   OR to a first marriage.  The reason why Eliza snr only has her 2 Texan born children George & Mary with her in 1861 on IoM, is because these two are her only living, biological, children (did her baby Eliza and young son Fred die young? ).

I also believe you've recently discovered David RICHARDSON's 2nd wife was: Jean St Clair IRVING, married at Trinity Church in Galveston, Texas on the 5th October 1858.

Did that record state he was a widower? If it does, I'm betting that was referring to his widowhood caused by the death of his legal wife, Sophia.

Also possible that David and Eliza did eventually marry in the US. But since he remarried Jean/Jennie in 1858, while Eliza was still alive - either he was a bigamist or else he was a legal widower (due to the death of Sophia) or divorcee* when he married Jean; My thought is Eliza was only ever his common-law wife.

Perhaps David RICHARDSON was a divorcee when he married Jennie - Divorce at those times was very uncommon in England unless one was well-off (which they admittedly may have been)  and even then it was uncommon and not straightforward. What were the laws and probabilities in Texas in the 1850's regarding legal Divorce?

I also thought the way the Will and administrations etc of Elizabeth RICHARDSON/WILSON - read like she was not ever legally a RICHARDSON when it would say things like   "otherwise known as", or "WILSOn alias RICHARDSON"etc as well as  "widow WILSON for example. Especially since she died Mid 1876, and as late as 1871 was on Iom Douglas Census as RICHARDSON  - but writng a her will just before her death and declaring herself to be Elizabeth WILSON, then being buried as RICHARDSON.
 
 

So if this above  were right, then Eliza/beth (Elisabeth) OATES should be someplace on the 1841 UK Census,,,,,,perhaps as OATS/OATES or maybe as WILSON, the name supposedly of her other, 2nd,  husband.

Cheers
AMBLY

[GeoffE]

It says "Com", short for "Commercial"- not "Corn"

It could also be Commission Agent.

[AMBLY]

Oooh! quite right you are, Geoff

Now you mention it, Commercial is  the more likely extension of Com. in this case?
ie: Com(mision) Agent

I think I was (incorrectly ) thinking of com as in...Com(mercial Traveller

In any case, the occupation fits well with David/Eliza on the Castle Garden Manifest  and actually, with the Land  Agent Geoff has found for David's probable father and brother.

I wonder if it would be worth seeing if Joseph RICHARDSON ever made a trip to the US.

Cheers
AMBLY

[Tunbridge]

Geoff and Ambly:  Thank you for your comments.  I was aware of most of the information you have suggested (with some exceptions noted below), but to date have not been able to determine absolutely the connection to ‘my’ David and Eliza.  I’m clutching at straws I think…..

What I know for sure is Robert Oates and wife Mary Thomson had 5 children, including Eliza ch 1821 St Georges and a younger sister named Margaret ch 1827 St Georges. Margaret married Samson Shelley and is noted as one of the Pledges in Eliza’s Will. In 1881 Margaret is residing with Mary Richardson, Lodging House Keeper bornTexas N America, and is listed as her “Aunt” – an indication I have the correct family connection with Eliza Oates.

David and Eliza’s first 4 children were born England (I know their 1st child was a “native of London, England”). Their 5th child was born Douglas, IOM, the 6th born in Louisiana, USA and the last 2 born in Galveston, Texas, including Mary who was born abt 1855 Galveston, Texas according to the 1861, 1871, 1881 & 1891 censuses (either shown as born USA, Texas N America, America or US America, British Subj).

I have seen the IGI entry showing the marriage between Elizabeth Oates and Robert Wilson 4 Aug.1842. The “Handbook of Texas” suggests David and Eliza’s marriage took place abt 1839 ‘England’. I realize England could well mean IOM as far as most outside of the island are concerned, but have found no record of marriage on the IOM and David was born/christened at Hutton-In-The-Forest, Cumberland (I think), and no marriage was found on the Free BMD either or the IGI.

The 1861 census indicates Eliza Richardson, Wife; the 1871 census indicates Eliza Richardson, Head, widow; would it be possible that when Eliza returned to the IOM with her 2 youngest, she was not legally divorced from David (he remarried in 1858) so she kept her married name.

David and Eliza’s daughter, Mary Richardson’s marriage registration dated 1882 (husband Henry Edward Bell), shows her father, David Richardson’s occupation to be “Editor of a Newspaper” – another indication I have the right family as this was David’s occupation throughout his lifetime. Also, one of Mary Richardson’s children was named George “Oates” Bell.

Eliza’s Will heading is written “Elizabeth Wilson OR Richardson”; even tho’ there is no mention of her maiden name, perhaps the “or” suggests her two married names only? Her MI is written “In loving remembrance of
Elizabeth RICHARDSON who died 25th April 1876 aged 55 years”, and her burial entry is recorded as WILSON, Elizabeth, aged 55 years/Dsg/BURIED 1 May 1876.   The Will also indicates property on Atholl Street as part of the estate being left to Eliza’s daughter, Mary, and this is property Eliza was resident of in 1871 and previously owned by her parents (Robert & Mary) between 1851-1871.

I have a copy of the Last Will & Testament of David Richardson (d 1871 New Jersey), however he mentions only his son David Jr from his first marriage; he left the bulk of his estate to his 3rd wife (death-bed marriage) to care for the keeping of the 5 minor children from his 2nd marriage.

I am convinced that Eliza OATES is the lady married to David Richardson and Mr. Wilson; my research has proven to me several times that Oates is her maiden name even tho’ I have nothing to document this, only references made in various documents.  
cont'd......

[Tunbridge]

cont'd from previous page....

What I didn’t know before was the reference made to David’s occupation as “Commercial &/or Commission” Agent - I favour "Commission".  This does help to clarify a part of the mystery as I could not qualify “Corn” Merchant with anything else I knew about him.  Thank you both for that.

Also, I did not even consider the fact that David and Eliza NEVER married!  I have a copy of the birth registration of Sophia Jane Richardson, dated 1840, showing her parents to be David Richardson and Sophia Shorts, but this only proved to confuse me even more.  This birth record for Sophia Jane Richardson was the only record I could discover that was even remotely logical but her mother was wrong in my opinion.  I will definitely have to look further into the possibility of even yet another marriage/liason for David.

While not pretending to know much about Texas Divorce Laws, I did discover the following excerpts when googling “Texas Divorce Laws 1850s”:
1. “Women in antebellum Texas found their role in society shaped by traditions that, while by no means unique to the South, were strongly entrenched in that region. The ideal female was a homemaker and mother, pious and pure, strong and hardworking, and yet docile and submissive. She was placed on a pedestal and admired, but she had no political rights and suffered serious disabilities before the law. Women could not, for example, serve on juries, act as lawyers, or witness a will. Texas women, however, did enjoy significant property rights. Married women retained title to property such as land and slaves owned before they wed, had community rights to all property acquired during a marriage, and had full title to property that came into their hands after divorce or the death of a husband. These rights allowed Texas women to head families, own plantations, and manage estates in ways that were anything but passive and submissive.”  Since this refers to before the American Civil War (1861-65), and coincides with the time of David and Eliza’s separation (mid-1850s), I am of the opinion that divorce was a viable and legal entity at that time, however does not prove Eliza and David did in fact divorce.  Divorces were not required to be registered until the 1960s.

2. “During the 1850’s, several states in America began to liberalize their divorce laws. As a result, women could now obtain a divorce based on marital cruelty (Glenn 67-68). However, the laws were restrictive in that the violence had to be severe and meet the courts standards of “legal cruelty.”  This is a generalization of all the American States and we would therefore have to presume it included Texas as well.

As well, I’m now thinking perhaps Eliza Oates did in fact marry Robert Wilson in 1842 and either divorced him, was widowed, or just simply left the marriage and then formed a liason (or married) David Richardson – or ? 

Ambly, you ask if Joseph might have travelled to the US; the 1901 UK census index includes an entry for Joseph M Richardson/78/Cumberland Hutton In The Forest Cumberland Rickergate/Retired Land Agent & Surveyor, and at that rather advanced age I doubt he would have travelled out of the country.  Of course, it is possible, but I believe unlikely.

You have both helped enormously with your ideas and suggestions and I am very grateful for your input.  I have been prompted to dig further into other areas I hadn’t previously considered.  Much appreciated.

[Craig M]

I have Nancy Ann Monkhouse 1815-1883.

She was born and died at Kendal, but in 1835 married in Preston Patrick to Thomas Oldcorn (sometimes spelt Oldcorne).

Although Thomas was from Preston Patrick his Grandfather had come from Hesket-in-the-Forest. The Oldcorne’s had lived in Hesket-in-the-Forest since at least the 1600’s.

Thomas and Nancy clearly moved around the area judging from a variety of birthplaces for their children, but the never went far.

Hutton and Hesket are adjoining Parishes. In addition I gather that due to the family being Catholic and the lack of local Catholic Church in the area at times resulted in Catholic families traveling to Kendal to use the Catholic Church. This can produce records of Christening, marriage and burial in away from the actual village of residence.

The chances are Nancy and Sarah Monkhouse was related somehow given the coincidences. However I don’t have any details on Nancy’s family. If you find any please let me know.

[Tunbridge]

I would presume you have the marriage registration/certificate for Nancy and Thomas which should give the names of Nancy's parents??  If not, then it will be almost impossible at this stage to determine any connection. 

Should I discover any new particulars I will post to this board.  Many thanks for your interest.