from GERMANY to INDIA to WALES

[auntie mandy]

Help - I' ve hit a brick wall and have no idea where to start.

My G grandfather, Frederick Young was born in Chanbattia, East India in 1881 - (IGI and census records)

I have a copy of his brother's birth certificate, Henry William Francis Young born in Cardiff on the 28th May 1886, the parents are listed as Philip Young and Mary Hoffeld.

From the census records both Philip and Mary were born in Germany. (C1901 Philip was an army pensioner).

Philip Young born 1836 in Rothselburg, Germany
Mary Hoffeld born 1846 in Vulernaison, Germany

I do know that the name Young was adapted to 'sound more british' and could possibly have been Jung.

I have found a record of the birth of Philip Jung 12th January 1836 - Rothselberg, Pfalz, Bayen (IGI).


Does anyone out there know how to go about looking and purchasing birth certificates for German ancestors and German's born in India ?

also

Why did German people emigrate to India at that time ?

Any help would be most welcome.

[JustinL]

Hello,

I cannot offer any help on the India side of things.

Are the birthplaces you cited for Philip and Mary from the 1901 census? Was Philip a naturalized British subject?

Rothselberg is probably Philip's birthplace, but Vulernaison does not exist. Can you post that part of the image to this forum?

There was no civil registration in Germany in the 1830s or 40s. You will need to locate the parish records (Kirchenbuecher). To do that you will need to know the exact parish in the town as well as the denomination. Not easy!

It would seem very likely that the surname was changed fom Jung to Young - a  straightforward translation. However, do you have any concrete evidence for this?

Justin

[auntie mandy]

Hi Justin

I have attached the 1891 census which gives Philip and Mary's birth place.

My mother told the story that the family originally came from Germany and changed the name to sound more English.  India came as a total surprise.

Sorry do not know if Philip became a british citizen.

Thank you for your help

Regards

Mandy

[auntie mandy]

Hi Justin (again)

I have just copied and pasted the 1891 transciption of the census page from ancestry.

This lists Philip as being born in Rothselbury, Germany,
and Mary as bring born in Vulernaison, Germany.



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Mandy

[JustinL]

Hello Mandy,

I might have guessed, it was a poor transcription. However, Mary's birth place is not obvious to me either.

It appears to end -marsow. The -ow ending on place names is not uncommon in north-eastern Germany. It could also have been -marsau, but the census enumerator did not know how to spell it.

The English V sound is equivalent to the German W. Maybe the place started Wohl?

Wohlmersow - Wohlmarsau ?

Maybe Berlin Bob can enlist the help of the folks at Ahnen und Wappen.

I checked the 1901 census and notice that Philip and Mary gave their birth places as 'Germany BS', i.e. British subjects born in Germany.  There have been a couple of other recent posts on this theme. I did not follow them through to their conclusion. You should perhaps.

Rothselburg must be Rothselburg about 20km NW of the west German city of Kaiserslautern in Rheinland-Pfalz. Looks like our friends the Mormons microfilmed the Lutheran (protestant) records film no. 0597010.

Justin

[auntie mandy]

Hi Justin

I just googled Wohlmersow and Wohlmarsau and the response it gave was "did you mean Walmart"  (it did make me chuckle).

Thanks for your help, all of my research to date has been in England and Wales, so this is completely new to me.  (I didn't know BS meant British Subject ).

Mandy

[auntie mandy]

I have been on The National Archives site, ( all evening  ) i've searched naturalisation records, army service records for Jung and Young.

I've also been on the British Library records of births (India Office) and searched for each of the childrens names.

   (I have found absolutely nothing )   

I think I should go to bed now and try again tomorrow - perhaps it's me and I'm tired and not doing it properly.  

[auntie mandy]

I have been given the information that Philip was in the 40th Regiment   

Unfortunately I don't know anything esle 

[JustinL]

Hello Mandy,

That might be something like 40th Regiment of Foot.

You might like to start a parallel topic on the armed forces board.

Often when someone has become a British Subject through naturalization the acronym NBS will appear in the census records.

Philip and Mary appear to have been British by birth. I'm sure there was a similar topic on this board recently.

Justin