Upton Upon Severn Parish Marriage Look up Please

[cire]

Hi Jilly
Its all very difficult as there was at least one other Elizabeth Pitt born in Worcestershire. She is with grandparents name Bennett in 1841 &1851 and was born in 1838/9. I had thought this was the Elizabeth we were looking for at one stage. This could be the one you found. I think the Elizabeth we want could have been in or on her way to Australia in 1861. She married Jan van Koetsveld in October 1863 but had had a son earlier that year.
Just to confuse things even more she said on his birth cert that his father was William Walker!!! and she was Elizabeth Pitt!!!!! and the child was born in Victoria. The child was killed when about 13 years old in an accident with a cart, but on his death cert he is named Koetsveld, so Jan must have accepted him into the family.

I still haven't found any record of her entry into Australia. I am wondering if she added a few years to her age, to enable her to get to Australia perhaps as an assisted immigrant. So I don't know whether her mother went with her. There doesn't seem to be any mention of her mother in the family stories from Australia. She might have gone as a servant with another family, possibly under their name??

I have sent for the possible certificate for the Field/Pitt marriage and for the birth cert for the Elizabeth Pitt in 1845, and will let you have details as soon as I get them. (probably about 7 - days)

[Firehorse]

Hi Eric,  I will look forward to hearing about the results of the two certificates.  Hopefully the marriage entry shows that Susannah Pitt and Michael Field are a couple - fingers crossed! - and that the Elizabeth Pitt birth in 1845 is also correct.

Thanks for the additional details, though they are very complicated with all the name changes.  I'm not sure why William Walker was named as the father of the son who tragically died.  Elizabeth is definitely a mystery woman and it makes me want to find out more.  There doesn't seem to be any way to really determine if the 1861 census is in fact the Elizabeth in question and of course the birth of that particular Elizabeth would have her born about 1838.  Maybe it is purely coincidence that she is residing with a 'Walker'.  Hard to say, unless of course we can link William Walker to Macclesfield, Cheshire or Staffordshire and as a relative to this Ann Walker! 

I also checked for any possible details on the passenger lists to Australia, but her name wasn't coming up, although on one database there was an entry for an Elizabeth Pitt (no age mentioned) going over there on the 'Light of the Age' vessel in 1855, arriving at Sydney and/or Newcastle which was listed on the NSW Gvt. State Records site. This entry was under the assisted immigrant section. I should go back and see if there was a Susannah/Susan Pitt/Field/Walker mentioned.....

I also did a quick check of the newspapers archives website to see if there were any names mentioned or clues, but wasn't successful.  There was a lot of mention about Albert Edward Koetsveld, a police inspector.  He was her son, wasn't he? 

Anyway, I'll look forward to any more findings you might have and thanks again!

Jilly

[cire]

Hi Jilly,
I have now received the copy of the marriage cert. that I sent for. This shows that a Michael Henley Field, bachelor, groom (horse) married Susan Pitt on 14 November 1850 in the CATHOLIC chapel! in the district of Worcester. Susan's father's name is given as Henry Pitt. This together with the details in the 1851 census, of her age and place of birth, make it reasonably certain that she is the same lady!!! that married William Walker in 1840.

The only discrepancy I could see was that in this latest marriage she gave her father's occupation as "farmer", but many small farmers had a second string to their bow. In neither certs does she add "deceased"

The birth cert I sent for, for the daughter Elizabeth Pitt shown in the 1851 census, was not the right Elizabeth Pitt.

No wonder Elizabeth Miriam was confused about her name etc!!!!!!!! Her supposed mother seems to have set a good example!!!!! I need to look further for the birth cert of the right Elizabeth, but we still have her baptism.

 Why did Susan revert to her maiden name? Presumably William Walker died, sometime between 1840 and 1850, probably before 1846 when Elizabeth Pitt was baptised. There was no divorce at that time for ordinary people, it had to be by an act of Parliament.

The other possibility is that William and Susan had separated. In such cases it was not that unusual for one or both of the couple to marry again, and live bigamously.

Elizabeth may have been born a year or two before her baptism in 1846. Baptism was usually done within a month or two of birth but there are occasions when it was delayed for several years.

I had another look at the immigrant ships arriving in Victoria around 1860. I found one with an Elizabeth Platt, but there is no way of knowing whether this was a transcription error. One thing struck me was that this boat, the Shackamanon had some 350 passengers, of which over 300 were females and most of the ones I looked at were in their early 20s and had assisted passages, presumably an attempt to boost the female population of Australia. I am guessing here but I would think that there would be a lower age limit to get assisted passage, and perhaps Elizabeth added a few years to her age to get a passage.

Yes, Albert Edward was quite a senior police officer in Melbourne.

regards

Eric

[Firehorse]

Hi Eric,  Thank you for letting me know the details of the marriage certificate of Michael Henley Field and Susan Pitt.  Susan's father, Henry Pitt, would have definitely been dead at the time of their marriage in 1850, though I guess they could have left the 'deceased' part out.  Incidentally, I have his death details as follows (not sure if I have given these to you): 

1837:  District of Upton upon Severn, County of Worcester
July 31st in the Old Street, Henry Pitt, 55 years, Shopkeeper, Constipation of the bowel, Grace Pitt wife of deceased living or residing in Old Street Upton.  Reg. August 3, 1837.

According to Pigot's 1828/29 Trade Directory Henry Pitt was the innkeeper of the Red Cow in Old Street.  So adding the profession of farmer to shopkeepr and innkeeper isn't such a stretch I suppose. 

It is a shame that Elizabeth Pitt's birth certificate didn't match up.  Which Elizabeth Pitt certificate did you order, so that I can eliminate that one.  It's a shame that with a middle name such as Miriam, it doesn't readily show up on the list of births!  There is also a marriage record for her marriage to John which states the middle name as Marian, isn't there? 

I've looked around to find more information and even Michael Henley Field's details don't come up, so another mystery there.  Looking for a death for a Susan/Susannah Field shows inconclusive results. 

The Elizabeth Pitt I found who was an assisted passage I later found out to be someone totally unrelated with a different family. 

For the son that Elizabeth Pitt/Walker had who died young and was taken under the name/wing of Elizabeth's husband, John Korsveld, can you tell me what year/month he was born exactly and how long before their marriage in Oct 1863. 

Elizabeth and Susannah are definitely mystery women!  I'm going to keep searching though. 

Thanks again for the details!

Best wishes,

Jilly

[JackieS]

A genealogy bulletin board for Upton upon Severn is on the Genealogy menu at http://www.upton.uk.net.

A direct link is http://www.upton.uk.net/phpbb3/index.php and if you search on 'Pitt', quite a few people are researching the name.

Jackie

[JustHelen]

Is anyone able to find a marriage between William Hill and Ann (surname unknown) in Upton Upon Severn about 1810-1812.  Their first child, Richard, was born in Upton Upon Severn in 1812.

Helen

[philheeks]

Hi There

I have taken the body of my posting away as it was typed in error - I mistook Upton on Sever for Severn Stoke SORRY it was a senior moment
All the very best

Phil 

[JustHelen]

Hi Phil,

Oh dear!  Got my hopes up there for a few minutes.  Never mind, maybe somene else will reply.

Helen