Alfred Pope

[Malcolm173]

Hi

I’m trying to find more information about an Alfred Pope who married Kate Dunstan (my mother’s great aunt) in Pillgwenlly on 18 July 1877.  The marriage certificate gives his age as 30 (so birth year around 1847) and his occupation was a clerk.  It states that he was a widower.  His father’s name was John, who was a clerk in the civil service.

The only other records I have are the censuses for 1881 and 1901, which give Alfred’s birth place as Bermuda.  In 1881 Alfred was living with Kate and their two children, Leonora and Alfred, in Cardiff.  His occupation was shipbroker.  In 1901 (can’t find them in 1891) the family were still in Cardiff (now with a third child, Caroline) and Alfred’s occupation was Foreign Traveller, Coals.

I would be grateful for any more information about Alfred, including his previous marriage and his parents.

Many thanks if you can help

Malcolm

[wendy47]

Hi

I don't know if you have found your Alfred Pope but I came across the following. Is it a coincidence? His age seems to be out but maybe it was given by someone else.  His mother was fairly old when he was born.

1871 census for 61 St John's Street, Bridgewater Somerset

Alfred Pope     29  Linen Draper b W I  Bermuda
Martha J Pope    30 Wife b Portsmouth Hants
Alfred Pope    2 years 6 months b Bridgewater Somerset
Ernest Pope    1 year 2 months  b Bridgewater Somerset
Elizabeth Pope 74 Mother Widow Annuitant b Portsmouth Hants
Hannah Ballan    13 Servant

 RG10; Piece: 2388; Folio: 5; Page: 1

Couldn't find him in Enland 1881 census.


This could be the marriage but she is not Martha J
Marriages Mar 1863 
GOOD    Martha Emma     Portsea    2b   471    
POPE    Alfred         Portsea    2B   471    
PURDUE    Eleanor         Portsea    2b   471    
SLIGHT    Augustus         Portsea    2b   471   

Wendy

[Malcolm173]

Hi Wendy

This is very interesting but I don't know quite what to make of it because some facts fit and others don't!  There could be two Alfred Popes who were born in Bermuda around the same time but that does seem to be too much of a coincidence.  Your one would have been born around 1842 and a very helpful lady in Bermuda sent me an extract from a book listing church registrations there which has this:

Pope, Alfred – father: John – mother:  Elizabeth – baptism: 1841 Aug 15- age 4 weeks old – St. George’s Parish

So that fits your one.  Ours should have been born around 1847.

Our Alfred Pope married in 1877 and was a widower, so it is possible that he was the one who was married to Martha previously.  However the children don't match because in the 1881 census our Alfred had two children - Leonora aged 2 and Alfred aged 1.  Also his occupations were completely different to linen draper!

I will have to study all this more closely.  Thank you very much for looking into it for me, it's certainly given me something to think about!

Malcolm

[wendy47]

Hi Malcolm

Yes, I did wonder what happened to the children. So I checked the 1881 and found the following at 10 Hambrook Street Portsea

Martha J. Pope  Head Marr   40
Amy M. Pope    17 Pupil Teacher
Alfred T. Pope    12
Ernest J. Pope    11
Frank Pope    9
Sophia Good    38 Sister
   
RG11; Piece: 1158; Folio: 36; Page: 22 & 23

Her sister is unmarried so that ties in with the marriage I found. No sign of Alfred and Martha is the Head. So he wasn't yours.

Wendy

[Malcolm173]

Hi Wendy

Yes you're right, and Martha was obviously still alive then anyway!

Never mind, it was certainly worth checking and many thanks for taking the trouble to have a look.

Malcolm

[Malcolm173]

I’ve been looking at the records for Alfred Pope once again, after a gap of twelve years since I first posted the above messages, and I’m wondering now whether the Alfred Pope who married my great, great aunt Kate Dunstan in 1877 could be the same person as the one Wendy posted information about, who married Martha Good in 1863.

I’ve collated the two sets of records to compare the timelines (attached), expecting to find clashes, but it seems possible that they could be the same person, even though some details don’t match - like his apparent year of birth and his occupation.

It would be a bit of a scandal if they were the same person, so it’s probably best if the things they have in common (name, born in Bermuda, father’s name) are just coincidences!  I’d be grateful for any suggestions as to how to prove or disprove it either way.

If it helps to see the records I’ve used to compare the two, I've included a link at the bottom of the table I've attached.

[wilcoxon]

Hi Malcolm

Yes, I did wonder what happened to the children. So I checked the 1881 and found the following at 10 Hambrook Street Portsea

Martha J. Pope  Head Marr   40
Amy M. Pope    17 Pupil Teacher
Alfred T. Pope    12
Ernest J. Pope    11
Frank Pope    9
Sophia Good    38 Sister
   
RG11; Piece: 1158; Folio: 36; Page: 22 & 23

Her sister is unmarried so that ties in with the marriage I found. No sign of Alfred and Martha is the Head. So he wasn't yours.

Wendy

 Saturday,  Mar. 21, 1863

Publication: Hampshire/Portsmouth Telegraph (Leeds, England)Issue: 3311

POPE-GOOD-On the 10th instant, at Milton Church, by the Rev W. H. Redknapp, Mr. Alfred Pope, of Southsea, to Miss Martha, second daughter of Mr. T. Good, 3, Commercial-road, Landport

[wilcoxon]

There are a few items about Alfred Pope, mostly adverts or reports of theft,,he is always a draper.

This is interesting though.😉
Text doesn't copy well.

PORTSMOUTH POLICE
Date: Saturday,  Apr. 4, 1868
Publication: Hampshire/Portsmouth Telegraph (Leeds, England)Issue: 371

Alfred Pope, a linendraper, carrying business in Commercial-road, was- summoned to show cause why he should not contribute towards the support the illegitimate child of Susan Ford, of which he Was the putative father.-The defendant did not appeal l ot wvas represented by Mr. Harvey.-Mr. Champ appeared for the applicant.-The applicant stated that she gave birth to a child on the 21st of December. The defendant was the father of the child. She was in his employ as .domestic servant, and when she became pregnant he sent her away to Hiighhridge, in Somersahire, and gave her five guineas. She  had since received other sums from him, amountting in all to 101. lOs.-The paternity was not . denied, but Mr. Harvey objected to an application made by Mr. Champ for costs.-M~r. Garrington said the magistrates did not feel inclined to shield the defendant in anyway, and he would have to pay 2s. 6d. per week towards the support of the child, for  for the midwife, 11. is. for l the attorney, and the costs of the court. 

[wilcoxon]

1861
Name:Alfd Pope Age:21 Estimated Birth Year:1840
Relation:Visitor
Where Born:S George, Bermuda
Civil Parish:Westminster St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish:St MargaretCounty/Island:Middlesex
Occupation: assistant Draper
Condition as to marriage: unm