John Ashton - Elizabeth Nuttall

[heywood]

sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.

1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.

1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.

There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood

[moe1939]

sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.

 





1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.

1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.

There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood

[moe1939]

How my last post got posted I will never know.

Hi Heywood thanks for your interest,

I am going to post what is on John and Elizabeth's wedding cert.

#377 April 8th 1871,

John Ashton, age 23, Bachelor, Cotton Operator, residence 11 Rochdale Road, Heywood, father John Ashton, Pipe Maker.

Elizabeth Nuttall, age 23, Spinster, Rover, residence 96 Back of York Street, Heywood,
father Alice Nuttall Spinster. (no father listed)

Wedding at St Lukes Church, Heywood, in the presence of John G. French and John Spencer after banns by T. Ramsbotham.

I believe the 1871 census was on april 2nd 6days before the wedding so they were born in 1848 or if their birthdays were after the wedding 1847.



My grandfather William Ashton 1871 (John's son) 43 Peel Lane Heywood married Sabina McManus Dec. 18th 1897. It looks like they are showing John the father as deceased but listed as a Green Grocer as profession.

William Ashton birth certificate born 9th August 1871, 7 Bottom of Brow Heywood,
father  John Ashton Cotton Operator mother Elizabeth formerly Nuttall .

Registered 11 august 1871 Bury

Hope this may help and again thanks for the effort Heywood.

I believe Robert was eliz. son Elizabeth' mother was Alice Nuttall 1828?

Have a good day ....Moe

sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.

1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.

1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.

There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood

[moe1939]

Never thought about the cross reference thanks Moe

see also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=328932.new#n

Hi Moe,
it's best to cros reference the postings just so that there is no duplication of information - as I said on the other post, I have the family in 1891 but not 1881 yet. There is no Robert in 1891 - you have him born 1866 - but they didn't marry until 1871 - is that right?
best wishes
heywood

[moe1939]

Morning Heywood .

The 1861 pupil I am sure he is tied into the John and Jane tree.

I have in 1861 census John 12 b 1849 father John b 1822 Pendleton, mother Elizabeth
b 1831 Pendleton.

I seem to remember my aunt doing some foot slogging searches back in the 1960/70s
 going on weekend trips to the Whalley area which is the same area as Pendleton. I never did get a copy of what she found.

Have a good day ...Moe

PS The switch of birthplaces for John and Eliz(betty) 1881 is because of a writing error by not filling slot on the same line he showed nothing for John and Stockport next down for Eliz., thats my guess anyway.

sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.

1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.

1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.

There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood

[heywood]

I'll post what I have found and we can see what is relevant etc 

1871 RG10; Piece: 3950; Folio: 68; Page: 15
6 Brow Bottom Heywood

Alice Spencer widow 51 yrs laundress b Bury
Elizabeth Nuttall daur 22 yrs cotton mill operative b Walmsley
Hannah Spencer daur 20 yrs  ditto b Heywood
Rachel daur 19 yrs ditto    b heywood
Thos son 16 yrs  ditto   b heywood
Willm son 12 yrs  ditto  b heywood
Robt S Nuttall grandson 4 yrs  b heywood

so just a few days earlier than marriage- Elizabeth has a different address but this fits with birth certificate of William.

Perhaps too the witness John Spencer is a member of this family. Found them on 1861 - yes he is.
there is a John Geo French 18 rys b Norwich and boarding in Heywood- other witness? Nothing in census entry gives any clues.

I have found Back York Street but what may be the census page with 96 on has been copied with the house numbers missing 

After a lot (and what a lot) of searching - I have found 11 Rochdale Road in 1871- Heywood District 10 - will try to get the reference no in a minute

Jane Fenton head widow 63 yrs cotton weaver b Lancs Holcombe
David Fenton unmarried 20 yrs unemployed b Heywood
John Silker  boarder unmarried 22 yrs cotton blower b Cheshire Stockport
(the plot thickens  )
here is the reference 1871 RG10; Piece: 3951; Folio: 85; Page: 21 transcribed as Silker.
well- we will have to look into that!

[heywood]

Now John born Pendleton is not married in 1851 when young John is born.
1851  HO107; Piece: 2157; Folio: 176; Page: 34

He is the only one in his family born Pendleton which may be Pendleton Salford as opposed to Pendleton Whalley.

1861 RG9; Piece: 2569; Folio: 16; Page: 26
is odd in that if the John of 1851 is this one- then where do Isabella aged 14 yrs and John aged 12 yr fit it.

Just found this family in 1871 as Aston - with John aged 20 yrs so not him 
1871  RG10; Piece: 3664; Folio: 15; Page: 23

back later

[moe1939]

Hi Heywood ,

Thank you for the information I will compare with what I have sorry to hear about your lost.

Regards Moe

[moe1939]

Yes I was looking at the 1871 census Spencer/Nuttall line the 1861 census shows both Alice and Elizabeth as Spencers The 1851 census shows Alice Spencer but Betty(Elizabeth) as Nuttall . I havn't found a link for 1841 census.

If anyone has information on the Nuttall/Spencer connection please let me know.

There are  two other 1871 census that threw a curve when I first saw them,

1871 RG10 Piece 4135 Folio 90 Page 19 Elizabeth born in Orton Yorkshire
1871 RG10 Piece 3959 Folio 35 Page 64 Elizabeth born in Walmesley as per your 1871 census but tied in with a Nabb family.

John Geo French was listed as the other witness at the wedding, with him born in Norwich is interesting because I remember my aunt mentioning that area about some connection.

Now this John Silker b Stockport boarding at the Fentons at 11 Rochdale Road the same time as John Ashton b Stockport , to me I think it is John Ashton I was not able to find any John Silker born in Stockport maybe someone can help me on this.

You all have a good day...Moe

I'll post what I have found and we can see what is relevant etc 

1871 RG10; Piece: 3950; Folio: 68; Page: 15
6 Brow Bottom Heywood

Alice Spencer widow 51 yrs laundress b Bury
Elizabeth Nuttall daur 22 yrs cotton mill operative b Walmsley
Hannah Spencer daur 20 yrs  ditto b Heywood
Rachel daur 19 yrs ditto    b heywood
Thos son 16 yrs  ditto   b heywood
Willm son 12 yrs  ditto  b heywood
Robt S Nuttall grandson 4 yrs  b heywood

so just a few days earlier than marriage- Elizabeth has a different address but this fits with birth certificate of William.

Perhaps too the witness John Spencer is a member of this family. Found them on 1861 - yes he is.
there is a John Geo French 18 rys b Norwich and boarding in Heywood- other witness? Nothing in census entry gives any clues.

I have found Back York Street but what may be the census page with 96 on has been copied with the house numbers missing 

After a lot (and what a lot) of searching - I have found 11 Rochdale Road in 1871- Heywood District 10 - will try to get the reference no in a minute

Jane Fenton head widow 63 yrs cotton weaver b Lancs Holcombe
David Fenton unmarried 20 yrs unemployed b Heywood
John Silker  boarder unmarried 22 yrs cotton blower b Cheshire Stockport
(the plot thickens  )
here is the reference 1871 RG10; Piece: 3951; Folio: 85; Page: 21 transcribed as Silker.
well- we will have to look into that!