Author Topic: Drowned at Sea  (Read 17243 times)

Offline Little Nell

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 11,930
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 00:25 BST (UK) »
No doubt I will be told that I am being rude and disruptive (everyone else has), but hey ho, what's new when you're a moderator.  ::)  (And by the way this thread is complete! no deletions anywhere)

Tom, 

I fear you go too far.   Are you saying you do not want the information when it is offered?  If you are going to be grumpy, then you are likely to get very little in the way of constructive help at all.  How was anyone to know that you would be contacted privately.

May I ask what bearing the information about the man's marriage date would have on a request for details about the sinking of a fishing boat in the Firth of Forth? 

If you wish to publish your family history, why don't you set up your own website and put it all there?  Then no-one can "disrupt" it at all.  You would have full control of it.

However, I fear that your remarks about apparent non-Fifers are likely to set them against you.  I know they are a fiercely independent lot, but there's no need to be giving others a false impression of them. 

If you can get all this information by making contact with someone back in Fife, where is the point in asking all these questions?  It is so frustrating to go looking for the answers, only to discover that you already know the answer? 

Please consider any words you might use for a reply carefully. 

Best wishes
Nell

All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kiwihalfpint

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,913
  • Women and Cats will do as they please
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 01:34 BST (UK) »
Wow!    I came on to this thread because the title "Drowned at Sea" caught my eye.    Was hoping that posters might have given  the author of this thread, suggestions of where to look  which might have been beneficial to me .... whether it helped in my research or not, or pointed me in the right direction to look elsewhere.

I too have a few drownings in my ancestral tree, since my mother came from Banffshire and a fishing background.    It would have been nice to have some account of writeups of missing boats/drownings to add to my tree.  I have the Buckie site but it would help to look further for information.

I feel deflated after this :(


Cheers
KHP :(



Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline forthefamily

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,398
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 01:43 BST (UK) »
Me too KHP..... :( Thought I'd find out how to research a death a sea but not....... :-\

mab
Census information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Inishowen: Meenamullaghan (Big Hill), Foffenagh (Rock), Illies and area...mainly McCallion, Doherty, Bradley, Grant, Devlin
Kilmacrenan: Gortnacorrib....Bonner
Scotland: Bonar, Boner Bonner etc
Conwal: Kirkstown.....Toner, Parke
Derry City: Bonner, McGowan, McGilloway, McElwee, Bradley
Omagh: Bradley
Fanad Penninsular, Donegal.....McBride, Friel, Fielty
Sligo: McGowan

Offline trish251

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 9,156
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 01:51 BST (UK) »
Tom MacGregor speaks of me in this fashion - One such individual made that perfectly clear when she returned to the Fife Board after a self-imposed exile. Did it not occur to him that he was the reason for my self imposed exile. I was dismayed that new and old rootschatters were spending time & money to assist someone who wanted no assistance. I thought if he was ignored, he would stop publishing his family names - but no - if no-one responded to his posts Tom Macgregor replied to himself - in one instance 25 posts without another RootsChatter showing any interest. Eventually I decided the 25% of my roots embedded in Fife deserved better than to be buried under a tonne of coloured names from the IGI.

In the name of all that is good about RootsChat and noting that the moderators have decided to let this thread stay, I will try, yet again, to explain to Tom MacGregor (and I will hope that he will read the explanation), what is a genealogy message board on the internet, and how it differs from a blog. This may help him realise why  threads started by him tend to become distrupted, when other threads on the Fife board, and on all the other Scottish boards, sail along very happily.

Folks use genealogy message boards to help each other with their research. They do this because they enjoy it, because many of us have roots scattered around the world & may have no access to needed information. We don't usually expect to find living relatives on a message board, but on rare occasions this happens. We do often find folks who live near or know about our areas of interest. We also find many experienced internet researchers who can point us into directions where what we want may be found.

What we don't find on message boards are folks publishing their family history, so they can tell other researchers the names of every person they have found in their years of research. This is what people publish on their own internet site, or on a Blog. Both of these types of internet sites, allow one to talk about whatever you want, without any interference from anyone.

If an initial query on a time, place or name receives no response, you accept that for the moment, no-one knows. If you receive a short response telling you where to look - you say thanks - and move on. If perchance a number of people join in the discussion, all adding detail you could never have found yourself - that is the true joy of a message board. What you don't do, is ignore some replies, disparage some replies, and then tell the other folks, who looked in many places to help - oh by the way, my neighbours in Fife shared this with me years ago!

When Tom Macgregor started publishing his family history in a colourful and detailed manner, most rootschatters with an interest in Scotland thought he was looking for assistance & spent time and money providing him with information. It was revealed, however, that Tom already had 99.9% of the information required and was either confused about the aims of RootsChat or simply wanted a place to tell the world about his research. I initially gave him the benefit of the doubt - but as he has continued to overpower the Fife board with names and questions to which he knew the answer - I came to believe the only thing he wanted to do was preach. This meant he flooded the fife board with information of no interest or use to other researchers & those who were seriously looking for help in Fife had their messages lost within his sea of posts.

Sadly this current thread has confirmed my thoughts. Those who made suggestions as to where/how to look for the information requested were disparaged, and the very kind researcher who provided the detail  From Caledonian Mercury 8 March 1849  has to see the following response
Oh, incidentally, the individual who was drowned on the "Mary" off Bass Rock situated in the Firth of Forth, was John HEUGH.

So yet again, a question was asked, Rootschatters searched for answers, provided replies, and Mr MacGregor then announced he knew the answer.

A message board is not the place where one says
Let me make it clear that I wished to share with other researchers much of the information that members of my family and I had taken the trouble to accumulate

Other researchers do not want or need the detail of your family members - they are usually searching for their own. If you would like to share skills on HOW to research deaths at sea - fabulous, but this shouldn't include a rhetorical question (that some think is genuine)  nor detail of birth marriage children etc.

In summary - the KISS definitions

Genealogy Message boards are for interaction with others and helping each other with  research
Blogs and Web sites are for family history publications
Retorical questions are an insult to other posters

If Tom Macgregor wants to join in discussions on RootsChat & help others research their families - wonderful - if he wants to force his family names into every thread in which he participates, other rootschatters are likely to continue to ask WHY

Trish





Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline kiwihalfpint

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,913
  • Women and Cats will do as they please
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 02:09 BST (UK) »
Excellant reading Trish ......

The title leapt out at me ..... thats just what I need I thought .... but alas no :(

think I will do a post on the Banffshire board asking where to look ...... thought I might have got some results on here ..... I do have the Buckie Heritage site as well.   I have always had wonderful help with my postings ..... but as I said I feel very deflated.

Cheers
KHP :)
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline tommacgregor

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • *
  • Posts: 1,248
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 05:54 BST (UK) »

Hi,

My thanks to all for their interest in this Thread. Since the questions have now been answered, I consider the Thread closed and will simply move on to other items of interest.

Best wishes,


Tom.

Offline trish251

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 9,156
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 06:38 BST (UK) »

Hi,

My thanks to all for their interest in this Thread. Since the questions have now been answered, I consider the Thread closed and will simply move on to other items of interest.

Best wishes,


Tom.

Being as there was only one question and the answer was known before the thread was started, it should be understood that the thread should never have existed.

I do hope you read my post Tom and now understand how a message board is meant to be used. A polite acknowledgment of this fact would be appreciated.

Trish
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 07:12 BST (UK) »

Hi,

My thanks to all for their interest in this Thread. Since the questions have now been answered, I consider the Thread closed and will simply move on to other items of interest.

Best wishes,


Tom.

Tom,

I gave a polite response to your post at reply #2, ignoring your personal rudeness to me.
I ignored your post at reply #15 despite its appalling general rudeness.
I ignored your post at reply #16 despite its personal rudeness to me.

I cannot ignore the rudeness of this last post of yours - I regard it as a "slap in the face" to all of us.

There are many answers still awaited.

You owe all of us the courtesy of a polite response to all of the matters which have been raised.

For instance:
Quote from: JAP
What further information are you seeking?

Quote from:
...  Do you think that any extra information can only be provided by someone living in Fife?  What if someone related to the poor unfortunate seaman reads this and can give you extra information, but lives in New Zealand - should that be discounted?  ...  Have you already got a newspaper report or something?  ...

Quote from:
...Are you seriously suggesting that

a) you can choose who gives you information

and

b) the fact that someone lives a long way from Fife disqualifies them from helping you?

If the latter is the case, why do you bother to put up the post on a worldwide forum?  ... 

The following implicit question:
Quote from: sancti
I'm a little confused about someone asking you to check SP. As the accident happened pre 1855 then SP wont give you the information you require. I cant see on the thread where anyone suggested using SP unless it has been deleted like some other posts on the Fife board.

Quote from: Little Nell
...  Are you saying you do not want the information when it is offered?  ...  May I ask what bearing the information about the man's marriage date would have on a request for details about the sinking of a fishing boat in the Firth of Forth?  ... 
If you wish to publish your family history, why don't you set up your own website and put it all there?  Then no-one can "disrupt" it at all.  You would have full control of it.  ...
If you can get all this information by making contact with someone back in Fife, where is the point in asking all these questions?  It is so frustrating to go looking for the answers, only to discover that you already know the answer? ...

And I am sure we would all appreciate - as trish251 proposes - an acknowledgement from you that you have finally taken on board how a genealogical forum/message board normally operates, and an undertaking from you that you will follow the normal practices and procedures of a message board in future.

Regards,

JAP

Offline NellW

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 52
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Drowned at Sea
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 07:21 BST (UK) »
I too have a few drownings in my ancestral tree, since my mother came from Banffshire and a fishing background.    It would have been nice to have some account of writeups of missing boats/drownings to add to my tree.  I have the Buckie site but it would help to look further for information.

Dear KHP

I'm not an expert on finding reports of drownings but the newspapers of the time are often a good bet.  Those available on-line with particular relevance to Scotland include the Scotsman, Caledonian Mercury, Glasgow Herald, Aberdeen Journal, Dunfermline Journal.  Many rootschatters, regardless of where they are based, will have access to these and I'm sure would be glad to help.

If you're asking for a look-up, please post as much detail as possible, names, dates, name of ship if known, starting point, destination, home town etc.  All of these can be used as key words in a search.  In this case, the detail given was not enough to find anything but, as I have followed several of these threads, I thought there was a good chance the source was the Fife FHS death CD.  A search on that for "seaman" and 1849 revealed the men were from Pittenweem and that keyword picked up the reports.  Incidentally, the CD also mentions that a report would be found in the Fife Journal on 8 March.

I hope this helps and you manage to find something on your family.

Regards

Helen