Is he really a "Turner"?

[forthefamily]

It's a good thing we have census records  Though it is a puzzle why he would go to Norway  You will probably never know but it is a very interesting bit of your family history.

mab....off to bed as it's late here 

p.s. just a thought...the language barrier...that must have been huge.

[Timbottawa]

Sleep well!

Just playing around on Google, I found the following text (my emphasis):

"Voien Spinnery was established [near Oslo] in 1845 by Knud Graah, a Dane, who in the 1830's had come to Oslo ... and his brother-in-law N.O. Young, who was active in a range of manufacturing and processing enterprises such as ... rope making ...  He [Graah] visited England on a number of occasions and used English managers ..."

No way of telling (at the moment) if this has anything to do with my gt-gt-grandfather, but it is intriguing!

Cheers
Tim

[forthefamily]

Yes...very 

mab

[millybobs]

Just come across this rather old thread which took my interest because I have relatives connected with the flax industry in Leeds, Hunslet and Selby, Yorks.  You have probably solved the mystery long ago but if not, for what it's worth, I believe your problem occupation is twiner, ie one who deals with the making of twine.  Twine and rope were both made from hemp, a vegetable material closely related to flax  and a process related to flax spinning.  Did you find out any more about the connection with Norway?
Howard

[forthefamily]

Well...I agree it is Twiner and now it makes more sense:)

mab

[Timbottawa]

Thanks Howard,

I'm not sure that I've exactly "solved" it, but I have learnt quite a lot more about my gt-gt-grandfather through a newspaper obituary.  It turns out that he was trained as a mechanic, worked in Leeds on the design and production of flax spinning machines, spent some time installing said machines in various mills, and before heading off to Norway, spent some time in Belgium, which led to him receiving a medal from the King of the Belgians!  So while "Twiner" does make good sense, I still lean towards "Turner", as in machine maker.

My new mystery concerns his time as mill manager when he returned from Norway.  It turns out that the owners of the mill were 2nd cousins of his son-in-law, my gt-grandfather.  I'm interested in trying to work out whether the job was procured through family connections, or whether this was just a huge coincidence.  The mill owners in question were the big rope-making Boyle family, who were mainly based in Leeds.  Any connection to your flax ancestors?  If so, I can direct you to an interesting account of the family and their company.

Cheers
Tim

[millybobs]

Thanks for the info, Tim.
I don't think my ancestor had any connection with the Boyle company, though it is possible, as there was a Boyle, Gill & Co, flax spinners, in Meadow Lane, Holbeck, very close to where he lived in the 1840 - 50s.  James Milsom was a distant cousin, born Wakefield 1794.  He worked as a cropper (shearman) in the woollen trade and moved to Hunslet, Leeds around 1830.  In 1841 he gave his occupation as cloth dresser, and probably worked at the Potterdale mill on Dewsbury Road.  In 1851 he gave his occupation as labourer in a flax mill - this may have been the same mill, as the Potterdale switched from woollens to flax spinning around this time.  He and his whole family (wife and four children) then disappear from the census entirely, with the exception of son Charles, who on the 1841/51 censuses was described as a flax dresser / flax trimmer. 

Charles moved to Selby, about 20 miles from Leeds, and in 1861 was recorded as a foreman in a flax mill there.  He later spent some time in America but returned to Selby and ended his days there as manager of the Portholme Flax Mill, owned by the Foster family.  They were spinners, and also made twine and rope. 

I had wondered if James had gone abroad to work in Europe in the flax industry there, but it is highly unlikely that any company would bring in labourers from overseas, and I have no evidence to suggest that James ever rose above that level in the industry.  And he was certainly not an engineer. 

It is, nevertheless, interesting to learn that companies in Norway and Belgium were drawing upon English expertise in their flax businesses.  Much of the early machinery for the industry was developed in Hunslet by John Marshall and Matthew Murray. 

I would be interested in the link you have to Boyles' flax mills if you could let me have it.  I work on the premise that any information might turn out to be useful!.

Regards
Howard

[youngtug]

It looks like turner to me. A turner is a person who uses a lathe, for wood or metal.[although wood and metal turning lathes are different, they are essentially the same] An almost essential piece of machinery in engineering. A lot of apprenticeships were " fitter & turner". If he was trained has a mechanic then he may well have been working  on a lathe at the time of the census and therefore was noted as a turner.

[Timbottawa]

Hi Howard,

Yes, the Boyle, Gill & Co. were an early incarnation of the company that would end up as Boyle & Sons.  The information on that family and company was published in the Journal of the Thoresby Society some 30 years ago.  I have a copy and the exact reference, but as I am travelling on business at the moment, I'll only be able to send it to you when I get home.  If you live in or near Leeds, there is a copy of the journal in the Central Library.

Regards your James - have you discounted emigration to America?  Charles, you say, went over there for a while before returning - could he have been thinking of joining his family, before concluding that he was happier back home?

And thanks, youngtug, for support on the "Turner" interpretation.  My gt-gt-grandfather's indenture papers for his apprenticeship state that the purpose is for him "to be taught, learned, and instructed in the art, mystery, or occupation of a mechanic", which I think sounds rather lovely!

All the best
Tim