Author Topic: Can an accent ever be Lost ?  (Read 11255 times)

Offline genjen

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,439
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #18 on: Friday 05 September 08 11:22 BST (UK) »
Why does accent make a difference?

As fas as I'm concerned - once a Scotsman, always a Scotsman.

It's not what comes out of your mouth or how it sounds, it's what comes from your heart.

Anne

I fully agree ;D

KHP :D
Why does accent make a difference?

As fas as I'm concerned - once a Scotsman, always a Scotsman.

It's not what comes out of your mouth or how it sounds, it's what comes from your heart.

Anne

Me too and although I was born in North Yorkshire and have only lived in Scotland very briefly, many years ago, I have always felt more Scottish than English.

Both of my daughters, born in Yorkshire, raised in Westmorland, of Scottish and English ancestry, support Wales in the rugby! How did that happen?  ???
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

ESS: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow Duck Spurden Harmony
SCT: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NRY: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
WES; Dickenson Jackson Ewbank Waller
STS: White
SRY: Knight
DUR: Smith Littlefair
HAM: Williams Grose Lush Venson

Offline Deb D

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,574
  • I'm not over 40 ... I'm 39.95 plus tax!
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #19 on: Friday 05 September 08 12:22 BST (UK) »
My grandparents were from Anstruther in Fife ... they emigrated to Australia early on in their married life, but never lost their accent.  My mother, born here, has been "picked" by other Scots by the few hints in her speech.  The only ones I'm aware of are that she says "mulk" and "mullions" instead of "milk" and "millions" ... and yet one woman was even able to identify which town her parents came from!  :o
I live in Sydney, Australia, and I'm researching: Powell, Tatham, Dunbar, Dixon, Mackwood, Kinnear, Mitchell, Morgan, Delves, & Anderson

Offline JustinL

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,808
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #20 on: Friday 05 September 08 18:10 BST (UK) »
Can I just remind folks that Pam was talking about a period of 170 years - three or four generations ago!

Justin

Offline Berlin-Bob

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,443
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #21 on: Friday 05 September 08 18:55 BST (UK) »
Language is a question of learning and reinforcement and refreshment and this may come as a surprise to many, but this includes our mother tongue as well.

A lot of people think, the mother tongue just .... well, just is, but it isn't.
You learn your mother tongue, and, for most of us, it is constantly being (passively) reinforced and refreshed.  Even if you don't speak a word, you are constantly seeing (reading, advertising, etc) and hearing (listening to others, to the radio, tv, etc) your mother tongue, so you think it's natural, and that it's always there and that you never forget it.  Wrong !!!

I have been living in Germany for over 35 years: the first twenty years were in an almost totally german-speaking environment. I spoke maybe an hour of english in a month, otherwise I read, spoke and heard only german.

The result was, that I forgot a lot of english, and when I visited the UK I was often taken for a foreigner - I just didn't sound quite right, I had to keep searching for words.
Even my (later) MiL thought I "spoke good english for a foreigner"  ;D

People who move to foreign countries, or even "foreign" counties have two choices:
- encapsulation or assimilation.

Encapsualtion means you join the "colony" there and carry on talking the way you always did, among people who talk the same as you do. (you don't "go native").
Assimilation means you fit in with the new, and as I did, you gradually forget the "old" because the otherwise constant reinforcement/refreshment isn't there.

So to come back to the original question:
if the emigrants are with a colony of others from the same region, then they will retain their accents or brogues or dialects - for a while - but the longer they live in the new land, and the more they spread out, then the more likely they are to forget the "old" accents and take on the new. 

Add to this the fact that many will deliberatley drop an "old" accent in order to assimilate better into a new country, or a new life, then I guess that in the course of a couple of hundred years, apart from small colonies of who have always stayed together, the individual accents will grow more and more like those of the "host" country/county, with just a few "family" words and phrases being left.

Bob

ps.

After I met my wife (scottish) I started speaking english every day again, and my english improved dramatically (constant refreshment, just from being in an english speaking environment). 

Although even now, I still have occasions where I use a word, that suddenly springs to mind, and I think: "that's a good word, I haven't used that one for over thirty years !!!"
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)


Offline GeoffE

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,995
  • Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #22 on: Friday 05 September 08 19:39 BST (UK) »
I remember Ken Barlow's twins in Coronation Street had a strong Scots accent as kids* but, when they returned from Glasgow as grown ups some years afterwards, had a Lancs accent.

(*They were brought up be relatives in Scotland after Val died.)
Don't cry because its over. Smile because it happened.

Offline beady

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #23 on: Friday 05 September 08 19:48 BST (UK) »
      ;)  ;) ;)   No matter who you are or where you are from you CANNOT lose an accent.  You may stop using it,  but someone else will start using it -- you always know where it is/was/came from -- therefore it is not lost-- just misplaced or misused or unused, and can be brought back into use at any time
Dring, Keightley, Lincs,  Davies, Stuckey, S Wales

Offline PrueM

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,637
  • Please don't try to PM me :)
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #24 on: Friday 05 September 08 23:32 BST (UK) »
Can I just remind folks that Pam was talking about a period of 170 years - three or four generations ago!

Justin


Amother reminder!  ;D   

Offline Ninatoo

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 06 September 08 06:11 BST (UK) »
I was born in Glasgow and spent the first four years of my life learning to speak there.

I came to Australia with my parents and within a very short time of beginning school I had lost my accent.  Trying to fit in as a little girl was the reason...people were always correcting me "it's not sumbuddy, it's someBODY" is one I recall.

My parents still speak with their accents but when they go back to Glasgow, they are told they have an Australian accent.   To my own ear, it was nowhere near as broad as the Glasgow natives, but still there and sometimes still broad enough to be difficult for people in Australia to understand.  They have had to modify their accents a bit over the years, so they could be understood.

Well....I agree with the poster who said we never lose our accents, we just don't USE them.  My family seems to be proof of this.  I and my late brother, having first learnt to speak with the Scottish accent, were/are able to 'put it on' any time. In fact for some extremely odd reason, I have always spoken to my pets and babies with a Scottish accent.  But my youngest brother, born in Australia, and never having learned the Scottish brogue, sounds like any other Aussie trying to put the accent on.....awful! ;D

Nina
CARSON - Glasgow, Ayr and Ireland
CLARK - Dunbarton
CORR - Glasgow and Ireland
COTTERILL - Glasgow and England
CROMBIE - Glasgow, Ayr and Ireland
DOCHERTY - Glasgow
EASTON - Dunbarton, Renfrew and Glasgow
GLANCY - Glasgow and Ireland
GORDON - Glasgow and Ireland
GRANELLI - Glasgow and Italy
LOGAN - Glasgow and Ireland
MAIN - Fearn, Ross & Cromarty and Glasgow
MCCORMICK - Glasgow and England
MCNICOL - Glasgow and Ireland
O'BRIEN - Glasgow and  Ireland
WATSON - Glasgow

Offline julkes

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: Can an accent ever be Lost ?
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 06 September 08 15:00 BST (UK) »
Why does accent make a difference?

As fas as I'm concerned - once a Scotsman, always a Scotsman.

It's not what comes out of your mouth or how it sounds, it's what comes from your heart.

Anne

probably to understand you need to be in those shoes.
though my case is extreme - english is my second language.
can you hear my accent when you read this? :)
Russians and Danes in the UK