BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #4: Esther Rantzen

[Necromancer]

Having a discussion doesn't mean it all has to be as dry as dust

I would doubt if Esther would consider them light. They are personal and dont add to the topic.

You can lighten up the discussion in so many ways ....

[chris_49]

Just found that Constance Otto's husband Charles was still alive on the 1871 so Montague Leverson not necessarily a suspect as the father of any of her children. Odd that he was neither a boarder nor lodger in 1880, just undefined.

No sign of him in 1870 nor (unsurprisingly) in the 1890 fragment. He was however on the 1900 I think as Montague K Leverson in  Brooklyn, New York described as Physician which is odd, but born England 1830 which is right - original could be R. In 1910 I found him twice! Lodger in the Bronx, New York, boarder in Atlanta Georgia. Details correct both times, down to "Own Income" under Occupation. Perhaps the census was carried out over a few days and he was counted twice, perhaps counted both where he actually was and at his usual abode - I've a couple of examples of this in my own tree. In all three entries he is Widower.

Only England census I see him on is the 1851 still at home, not long after that unfortunate incident with the shotgun.

Chris

[Roobarb]

I am such a sad person that I looked up the Barney Barnarto person - quite a bit about him including an interesting article by Scilla Rantzen (sister) where the relationship between Barnarto and her grandmother Sarah Isaac is established.
She does however support the lack of knowledge of any inheritance from him and obviously the programme explored the connection much more because of the vast sums of money acquired by this chap.
It has tainted the programme slightly for me because I think there was prior knowledge.

I was involved a little helping with some research for this programme.  It was made last summer (2007) and nothing was easily available then connecting the Rantzens to the Barnatos. Scilla must have used the information her sister found out when making the programme to write her article, it certainly wasn't the other way around.

That's very interesting Sue, can't say I blame Scilla for using the information though! Helping with the research must have been interesting too, there must be such an enormous amount of work behind the scenes to come up with the information. Well done!

[heywood]

I was involved a little helping with some research for this programme.  It was made last summer (2007) and nothing was easily available then connecting the Rantzens to the Barnatos. Scilla must have used the information her sister found out when making the programme to write her article, it certainly wasn't the other way around.

Scilla's article is interesting as she quotes other sources and of the parts of Esther's history which was revealed, I think the diamond connection was the most interesting- as has already been said- poverty to absolute riches makes a good story. and I always find the social aspects really captivating.
However, just using the internet and looking the Barnatos up does give his real name of Barnett Isaac. Looking up Esther's family reveals Sarah Isaac. I think if we were researching, at this point the bells would be ringing. It does look an easy connection just using census resources.
Disappointed is too strong a word, but I would have thought that the two sisters would have attempted to make the connection earlier than this - but we're not all the same 

[taylor887]

Hi Chris

Long time no speak! Hope you're well.

I was just looking back through my info re my Gt Grandmother Mabel Skelcey born 1899, and was wondering if you knew what happened to her two older sisters Lucy and Daisy. They do not appear in the 1901 census.

Clive

[chris_49]

Hi Clive - go to the Skelcey/Skelcher thread on Warwickshire boards. Chris
 

[Windsor87]

I must also echo what was said about the mention of the Warsaw Ghetto rising...in the context of this episode and Esther's family history, it was completely irrelevant.  It strikes me that whenever they research someone with Jewish ancestry, there's an unspoken rule that they must shoehorn a mention about the Nazis in there somewhere.

What absolute rubbish !   

What moved Ms Rantzen to tears was that she had lived a life of relative luxury, whilst some of her ancestors were not so lucky.  What were the producers of the show supposed to do to to explain the total lack of buildings in the area of Poland where her ancestors came from ?   Make something up ?  Or just ignore it ?  She appeared to be weeping tears of both joy and guilt, IMHO.

What absolute rubbish!

There was no need for that scene to be included. At the end of the day, it was a carpark with very little significance to the programme. As they said, nothing existed of the original site.
As for the survivor guilt claim - that was very cringeworthy. Her ancestors shipped themselves out of the place almost 100 years before the place was flattend by the Nazis. Looks like she survived by the skin of her teeth...

[jksdelver]

Am I the only one on RC who thinks these programmes are absolute dross? And they send out all the wrong signals to would be family historians showing them 'how easy' it all is to do family history, when its all be researched prior to the show.

[Mumsie2131]

Hi everyone,
Very mixed comments on this edition - I found it completely unabsorbing and felt it was contrived.  From what as been said so far it appears it is likely it was contrived - possibly the best of the rejects for this series ?!!!!!!!!!!!!
I too am looking forward to Ainsley, from the write ups I've read it looks interesting.