CARVER Ramblings Part 2

[janan]

Hi Neil

I have read and am still digesting your recent messages. My first thoughts are that I would be inclined to agree with you re the likelihood of the earlier Melbourn Carvers linking somehow to the Southill Carvers then a branch heading back to Melbourn. I still feel the Dean Carvers may also link to the Southill clan and would be worth further exploration.

Re social standing, yes the Melbourn 2 Carvers are higher up the social ladder, and maybe the earlier ones were too, but what of Thomas who married Mary Bromidge? - he was a labourer when removed from Turvey to Southill, so if he came from the earlier Melbourn line I wonder what happened to him?

And our lot? A separate Bedfordshire branch at least back to the Peter Carver of the 1550's? Again am inclined to think so. But as you say no proof.

Hmm all I've done is raise more questions Some of which I seem to have deleted! It was something about gaps, disappearing and appearing people. Er..

Thomas who married Mary Bromidge where did he come from? What happens to the children of the Melbourn 1 line? Thomas born c1640? John and William c1682? Where do the children of the Dean Thomas go after marriage?

Then the repeating names Thomas, Samuel, John and William suggesting connections - maybe they are in the gaps?

  Jan 
 

[MaggieLou915]

Hello Everyone

I have in my possession two certified copies of death which do not match up with any of my Carvers.

 The first one which I obtained in 1985 when I didn't know much about my family is for Sam Carver, age 44, grocer master who died of heart disease August 19, 1897 in Manningham (?) Bradford.  His wife Margaret A. Carver, widow of the deceased was present at the death at 1 Fraser Terrace, Manningham. 

The second one received just recently is for the death of Thomas Edward Carver, age 16, son of Thomas Edward Carver (deceased) a linen glazier, of heart failure from acute diptheria on January 7, 1912, 7 Bakson Street, Burley, Kirkstall, Leeds.

If either of these certificates belong to anyone else, I can forward them.

Thanks

Marg

[Easby Carver]

Hi Marg,

The Thomas Edward Carver, linen glazier, is the twelfth and last known child of Samuel and Emma Cox Carver.   The street name should be Bateson Street.   He was buried in the now cleared Woodhouse Cemetery in Leeds.   I do not have any information on the Manningham Carvers.

Neil.

[Chris Carver]

Hi,

Looking purely at NBI burials up to 1758, which I think are fairly complete for Beds, the Carvers are in:

Dean 1606-1616 inc Samuel and Thomas
Potton 1620-1677 with a few excursions to neighbouring Swineshead (3) and Old Warden (1)
Felmersham 1686 (1)
Sandy 1700 (1)
Keysoe 1702-1708 inc a Samuel burial and a Samuel marriage
Southill 1728 onwards
Dunton 1748 onwards
Tempsford 1753 onwards

I know most of these are close to the borders, but there is not much overlap in dates.

I know my earliest ancestor, Thomas Carver married Mary Bromidge in Turvey  and resettled to Southill in 1720, but Keysoe is very close to Turvey.  Could the Carvers have gone Dean to Potton to Keysoe to Southill and then spread out from there?  I believe that Keysoe was also a strong non-conformist area which might support this theory as Thomas went to the Southill Independent Church.  Or did the Dean ones go out of county to reappear in Keysoe.  The naming pattern of Samuel/Thomas follows right through my family. The only slight nagging doubt for me is that Thomas's settlement certificate names him as Carvel and there was a group in Toddington 1679-1720 which includes a Thomas b 1705.

Anyway, I need more info on births and marriages in this period to see if there is a progression.

By the way, there is no doubt that the Melbourne Carvers descend from the Southill ones as do the later clutch in Ickleton (via London).

Chris

[Easby Carver]

Hi Chris,

Can I just run something by you. 

I have 71 Cambridgeshire Carvers on my tree descended from the Thomas Carver (circa 1700) who married Mary Bromidge.  I have a separate tree of 17 Carvers based in Melbourn between the late 1500s and early 1700s which I have no connection to either the later Melbourn Carvers or the Bedfordshire mob for.   Do you know who these people descend from?  There are:

THOMAS CARVER (d. 1601) married ALICE HITCHE (d. 1635) in 1592.

Children:
JOSEPHE (b. 1593)
JOHN (b. 1595)
MARYE (b. 1598)
THOMAS (b. 1601; d.1659)

Of these JOSEPHE had 4 children (wife unknown):
JOANE (b.1627; d.1627)
ANN (b.1628)
AMBROSSE (b.1629; d.1630)
MARYE (b.1631)

THOMAS married a MARY (d.1676) and had 2 children:
THOMAS (b.1640)
WILLIAM (b.1642; d.1699)

WILLIAM married an ANNE (d.1722) and had 3 children:
WILLIAM (d. 1682)
JOHN (b.1682)
ANN (b. 1684)


Cheers,

Neil.

[janan]

Hi

On earlier records I have found Carvel/Carvill/Carvile/Calver all appearing as variants for Carver within the same families ,so wouldn't be concerned by Thomas being named Carvel on his settlement certifcate.

If you add these variants to the NBI it doesn't make a huge difference except

Potton ends 1678
Dunton begins 1728

The earliest Potton record I have is

Marriage
Peter CARVILL to Joan ANCELL 7 Jan 1609

I have no idea where Peter came from. There is an interesting very early Sutton record

Marriage
25/10/1551 Chris Carver to Isabel Norman

But where they went I again have no idea. Maybe the Thomas who married Alice Hitche was one of their children, who knows?

Jan

[Chris Carver]

Hi Neil,

Sorry I have not looked that early in Cambs. However, the naming pattern of Thomas looks as though they could belong to us via a currently unknown place.  I think my next priority is to look in more depth at the Keysoe BMDs, particularly the births if any.

Re the wealth of the Melbourne clerical family, Rev John of Wellingborough acquired land in Wellingborough and left some money to various children, though not immense amounts.  Rev William started his school in Melbourne which was well regarded by some influential and wealthy families who gave him some important patronage.  However, he also did not leave vast amounts of money.  I suspect his most important legacy was a good education for his children, good social standing and influence through contacts via the school and church, carried on by his son Rev William Crole.  Sounds as though little has changed in the intervening years?

I have several publications re the Melbourne Carvers which detail all this if anyone is interested.

Regards


Chris

[Easby Carver]

Hi Chris/All,

I should be in Cambridge Records Office some time next week if anybody has any requests.

I'm keeping an open mind for now about those pesky links between Bedfordshire and Cambridge.   Will try to focus my attention on the early Melbourn Carvers.

Just a few other bits and pieces I've picked up along the way recently:

First World War Carver Casualties: Source Bradford Weekly Telegraph
Pte. A.E.Carver, 4 Pearson Street, Leeds Road, Bradford - wounded; in Norfolk War Hospital (report 12.7.1918)
Pte. Willie Carver, 41 Kitson Street, Windhill, Bradford - killed aged 36 years.  Joined 9 months; employed by Garth & Rix (Painters & Paperhangers) at Windhill Bridge; 4 children (report 28.9.1917)


Will of Thomas Hockoll of Arlesey dated 29.10.1508; probated 14.11.(1508?)
Witnesses: Thomas Kerver (indexed as 'Carver') 
Source: Bedfordshire HRS 1957 Wills 1498-1528; copy at Kew.



Bedfordshire Gaol Record: George Carver
Record ID: 9858
 Commital Year: 1851
 Reference Doc: BLARS QGV10/3
 ID in Reference Doc: 986
 Age: 19
 Gender: Male
 Height: 5 feet 7 inches 
 Hair Colour: Brown
 Eye Colour: Hazel
 Complexion: Fresh
 Visage: Round
 Identifying Features: Scar under the right ear
 Occupation: Coach Painter
 Education: Read and Write
 Marital Status: Single
 Birth Town: Newport Pagnell
 Birth County: Buckinghamshire
 Residence(town/village): Leighton Buzzard
 Residence(county): Bedfordshire
 Committed By: C.Hervey Esquire
 Comments on Commital: Further examination
 When Committed: 29/01/1851
 Type of Gaol: Bedford County Gaol
 How Disposed: From remand
 Discharge Date: 05/02/1851


Record ID: 18636
 Commital Year: 1851
 Reference Doc: BLARS QGV12/1
 ID in Reference Doc: 986
 Age: 19
 Gender: Male
 Offence: F.ex
 Committed By: C.Hervey Smith Esquire
 When Committed: 29/01/1851
 Type of Gaol: Bedford, New House of Correction
 Discharge Date: 01/02/1851
 General Remarks on Prisoner: from remand

Source: BLARS website.


Cheers,
Neil.

[41g]

Dear all

I have just started researching my family history and have found that my great-aunt Selina Coates married a Jonah Henry Carver of Sutton, Beds. in 1896 at St Peter with St Cuthbert, Hunslet Moor, Leeds.
In the 1911 census they have 3 children:
Victor Reginald Carver age 13
Clarence Edgar Carver age 9
Stanley Cox Carver age 4

Is this the same Jonah Carver whose picture appears in an earlier thread? Did he emigrate to Canada with his family?

Please excuse me if I've got this all wrong.
Regards
Sue