Mystery 'Nurse Child' Fred Talbot.

[fifer1947]

What was Walter Ormond in the nick for?  Has anyone checked him out?

[fifer1947]

I did consider Walter Ormande as being the father but, (unless he was a very busy man,) I doubt it as he also had a daughter born in 1898 (same year as Fred) to a Charlotte Dyett 

Coincidentally, this daughter entered the Workhouse roughly the same time as Fred Butler and spent many years in there, as did Fred Butler.

Was this child Emily Dyett? 

I would like to agree with you ......... however we often see cases in the papers where a man has a child by his wife and another by his mistress/girlfriend within weeks! 

[Rosie May]

Thank you I have just  read what you suggested - not pleasant reading.

I find it hard to believe Fred Butler/Talbot was just farmed out to any one for money alone.  If that had been the case then once  Jane Butler had  died why would her husband Walter Butler continue to try and take care of Fred until he was forced to both enter the Workhouse?

As for the son Walter Ormonde Butler, I haven't been able to find out what he served time for in prison.  All I do know about him is he had three children with Charlotte Dyett before eventually marrying her.  All children, plus Walter Ormonde spent time in the same Workhouse as Fred Butler/Talbot.


This whole thing/family  intrigues me and I  so wish I could get some closure for my Grandad

Rosie

[Rosie May]

Yes the daughter born to Walter O in 1898 was Emily Dyett

 

[rutht22000]

It looks like Walter Ormonde was a Gordon Highlander, joined up 1914, as well which could explain the connection for Fred Butler/Talbot and it doesn't look like WO behaved himself in the Army either - tried for losing his rations, deducted 10 days pay for disobedience of an order, inattention in the ranks, absences of pass, drunkenness...!

[fifer1947]

It looks like Walter Ormonde was a Gordon Highlander, joined up 1914, as well which could explain the connection for Fred Butler/Talbot.

Ah Ha now lets have a look at that picture again.     Could that be father and son?

Another point if Walter Ormonde didn't join up until 1914 was Fred already serving?  According to this thread, Fred joined up age 14, he was born 1898, so did he join up in 1912?  When did WO get out of prison?

[rutht22000]

It looks like Walter Ormonde was a Gordon Highlander, joined up 1914, as well which could explain the connection for Fred Butler/Talbot.

Ah Ha now lets have a look at that picture again.     Could that be father and son?

Another point if Walter Ormonde didn't join up until 1914 was Fred already serving?  According to this thread, Fred joined up age 14, he was born 1898, so did he join up in 1912?  When did WO get out of prison?

the dates occurred to me when I was posting....

WO was in prison on the 1901 census at least but depends what he was in for (HMP Wandsworth)

Fred would have been 16 at the time of WW1 breaking out

[Rosie May]

Fifer and Ruth -  thank you both for your comments:-

Fred joined up in 1912.

Yes, I agree, WO looks like he wasn't of very good character so...

Fifer suggests maybe the photo is of Father WO (Walter Ormonde Butler) and Son (Fred).  But the older person has the stripes of a Sargeant and surely WO, with his record, would not have been a Sargeant?

Also, another thing that has always puzzled me is that I have records of Walter Ormonde Butler having joined  the South Wales Regiment in 1896. It obviously is the same person because he gives his next of kin as Walter Butler, Father, of 113 Cormwallis Road, Lambeth.

But I cant understand the writing on these records and cant see how long he was in this Regiment for, as there doesn't seem to be any other records relating to this? 

If he joined this Regiment in 1896 would he then be able to join a different Regiment in 1914 (Gordon Highlanders)?  I am not able to work out how long he was in the South Wales Regiment for?? as there doesn't appear to be much info on this.

I don't have much knowledge of Army rules and regs so am unable to make much sense of this?

I am hoping some one more knowledgeable can put me right please?

Another thing that always puzzled me is that on the 1881 census there is a Dyett family living at 116 Vauxhall Walk, Lambeth (Vauxhall Walk crops up quite a lot with the Dyett/Butler family).  I don't know if this is the family of Charlotte Sophia Dyett (who bore WO three children before marriage) but, there is a Florence Dyett within this family who was born in 1868 and who died the year Fred Butler/Talbot was born in 1898.

There is also a brother in that family Fred.

I have often wondered if this Florence Dyett could be the mother of Fred?  But, where does the surname Talbot come from in that case?

Although it doesn't state a Charlotte Sophia in that census, it does show a Sys. S Dyett, aged 7.

Wonder if this could refer to Charlotte Sophia Dyett, who married WO?

I appreciate this is all speculation but its puzzled me for ages and wonder if any one else thinks this Florence could be the one who gave birth to my Fred?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this please.

thanking you.

Rosie 






 

 
 

[fifer1947]

What was the Dyett family's mum's maiden name?