Mystery 'Nurse Child' Fred Talbot.

[Rosie May]

This is my first posting so please bear with me as I am unsure if I am doing this correctly.

I have traced my Grandfather Frederick John Butler to the Lambeth Workhouse in 1906 (aged eight) with father Walter Butler (aged 58) and have all information since then to their respective deaths.  My problem is I cannot find any birth record of Frederick John Butler being born to this man.

I have traced Walter Lovick Butler and his family with wife Jane and two sons, Walter O and Lionel G through all the following census : 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891 but in 1901 Jane is on her own with a Nurse Child Fred Talbot born abt 1899 in Kentish Town.  Walter Lovick Butler is living as a boarder in Leicester.

I can find nothing to tie my Grandfather into this family at all and wonder if he was infact the Nurse Child with Jane Butler on the 1901 census? 

My Grandfather always said he was brought up in an Orphanage in Lambeth without parents, but that his father was called Walter L Butler. He always thought his birthday was on 20th August 1898 and this is the date of birth  given on his admittance to the Workhouse.

Can anyone please advise me how I could prove Fred Talbot and Frederick John Butler were infact the same person?  Any help and ideas would be welcome as I have been trying to solve this mystery for nearly 3 years now.

 I am sorry if this is too long but couldnt explain any other way. Hope it makes sense to you all.

Thank you to any one who may reply.

[lyndyloo6]

   Welcome to the board, told you you could do it...
lynda

[beady]

Free BMD have a Frederick John A Butler birth registered Camberwell Jun Qtr 1898 ref 1d 808
Suggest you get this and see if there is a tie in

[Rosie May]

Thanks Beady - have already investigated  that one but no connection I'm afraid.   

I havent been able to find any Frederick John Butler born with a father called Walter L Butler to match the details given on admittance to Lambeth Workhouse.

 

[Rosie May]

Thanks for your help Lynda - couldnt have done it without you LOL

xxxxxxxxxxxx

[dawnsh]

Can't help for definite but putting possible scenarios in (please don't take offence at the suggestions)

On the 1891 census Walter & Jane's 2 other sons are 14 and 13, by 1901 is it possible that one of them, Walter jnr ?, has fathered a child (with Miss Talbot) who is living with Jane, I think a 20 year age gap between Walter jnr, Lionel and Frederick is not biologically impossible but unlikely (by 1901 Jane was 51, a bit late in life for another child)

The other possible scenario is that Walter Snr is his father but he has a different mother and Jane is looking after him. Maybe Leicester was where he was in 1901 but he could have been anywhere in the country before then. In later life 'Fred' took the Butler surname.

Have you got actual copies of the workhouse and orphanage records? I can't get into the London Metropolitan Archives online catalogue today to check out their holdings.

Dawn

[Rosie May]

Thank you Dawnsh - yes I have also considered the same possibilities you have suggested but haven't been able to prove or disprove.

I went personally to the London Metropolitan Archives and viewed some documentation of the Workhouse records for both Walter L Butler and his son Frederick Butler.  I felt there was more information to be found so I paid for them to do a search for me.  This they did, and they sent me various documents.

Walter Lovick Butler died in the Workhouse there in 1914.

I also sent for Jane Butlers death certificate and she too died in the Workhouse Infirmary, Lambeth.  This was in 1904.  So it seems likely that after Jane's death Walter and Frederick fell upon hard times hence the admission into the Workhouse in 1906.

I would like to add, that my Grandfather, Frederick remained in the Workhouse until he left at the age of 14 to join the Gordon Highlanders.  He was a wonderful person and his early bad start in life never held him back in any way.

Thank you for your interest. 

Rosie

[dawnsh]

Have you looked for a baptism?

If you haven't, I'm still doing look-ups at the London Metropolitan Archives (see my posts at the top of the London & Middx boards) and can add you to my look-up list.

Dawn

[Rosie May]

Hi Dawnsh and thank you very much for your offer to do a baptism look up.

The date of birth on Frederick Butler's admission to the Workhouse was 20th August 1898.

Your help is much appreciated. 

Rosie