Offer:Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990

[glenburn]

I also note that existence of a pub called the Pilot Boat on Magazine Brow - wonder if dave or Barrie know from pilot-lore if this has a long association with pilotage.

If I can perhaps come in on this one, the Pilot Boat House Hotel is given coverage by local historian Noel Smith in his books 'Almost an Island - The Story of Wallasey' and 'Sandstone and Mortar - More of old Wallasey'.

Built in 1747, rebuilt in 1876, the public house is stated to have been the meeting place for the soldiers, fisherman and working-class folk of the district, who would enjoy a glass of ale and chat over the day's happenings. It was also the place where post-mortems were held on those found washed up on the sands or drowned in the river.

According to Noel it was called the Pilot Boat House due to the fact that a small boat belonging to the Pilotage was at one time kept at the back of the inn, but there's no known association with the service other than that.

My 3 x great-grandfather William EVANS, a fisherman in Hoylake at the time of his marriage in 1799, moved to the Magazines area of Wallasey around 1806 and eventually built what is now the Little Brighton Inn in Rowson Street - just up the road from the Pilot Boat House. Four of William's seven sons - all raised in the Magazines area - became licenced Liverpool Pilots, another being for many years master of the Magazines (later the New Brighton) lifeboat.   

All the LEDDER pilots were descendants of Edward LEDDER (b1797 Wallasey) & Jane DEAN, and also lived in the Magazines area, but (most frustratingly) I haven't as yet been able to fit this particular line into my family tree with any degree of certainty. This despite the fact that I have Wallasey LEDDERS going back, via LEADER and LEATHER, to my 7 x great-grandfather John LEATHER (b1632 Puddington), who married Sarah BROWNE in a 'Parliamentary Wedding' on 4 August 1657 in Chester. 
John & Sarah LEATHER were uncle & aunt to Thomas WILSON (b1663 Burton), who was Bishop of Sodor & Man from 1697 until his death in 1755.

Would be most interested to know imd6662's connection to the LEDDER pilots, and whether he's been able to take this line back any further than the Edward born in 1797?

[imd6662]

BY: When you think of the horrors that tea has visited on the world, how prudent it was of the authorities to prevent pilots from trucking in it!

glenburn: Thanks - sent you a PM.

[BY]

imd.

Quite so!

BY

[glenburn]

As an illustration of the inter-connectedness of some of the Wirral-based Liverpool Pilot familes, fisherman Edward LEDDER (b1797 Wallasey) married fisherman's daughter Jane DEAN (b1798 Liscard) and had the following children before his untimely death in 1832 at the age of only 34 :-

1822  Edward (m Dorothy JONES 1846 in Liverpool)
1824  Joseph (see below)
1827  Margaret (see also below)
1829  George (m Sarah Louisa BARNWELL 1858 in Liverpool St Simon)
1831  James (d1832)

Edward (b1822) attained a Liverpool Pilot's licence in 1844. He was drowned on 1 March 1873 when the ship CHACABUCO which he was piloting into Liverpool collided with the Liverpool/Dublin steamship TORCH.

George (b1829) attained a licence in 1855. His son Edward John LEDDER (b1859 Liscard) was also a Liverpool Pilot.

According to Youde/Tebay Joseph LEDDER [b1824] attained a licence in 1847, although in newspaper reports of his death on 5 December that year he was described as only an apprentice. (Six men belonging to No 4 Pilot Boat were lost when their punt capsized whilst transferring from No 12 boat).

George LEDDER's wife Sarah BARNWELL (b1836 Leamington) had a younger sister Jane (b1841 Leamington) who married Liverpool Pilot Henry DEAN (b1841 Wallasey) in 1863 in Birkenhead. After Jane's death in 1874 (aged only 32) Henry DEAN married George's sister Margaret LEDDER (b1827).
Henry DEAN was nephew to Margaret's mother Jane DEAN (b1798 Liscard).

Lydia SMITH (b1802 Wallasey) was an illegitimate daughter of William LEDDER and Mary SMITH. In 1820 she married butcher Samuel LESTER (b1800 Wallasey), who was first cousin to Liverpool Pilot Thorley LESTER (b1790 Brimstage).

After Samuel LESTER's early death in 1821 Lydia married plasterer's labourer James LEDDER (b1799 Wallasey).

The above Thorley LESTER (the first of three Liverpool Pilots of that name) was witness to my 3 x great-grandfather William EVANS' will in 1839. 

[portlandlib]

I'm wondering if someone could help me with the name of Pilot boat no 5 in mid 1850s and again in mid 1870s?
Also could you confirm that boat no 8 in 1860s was named "Pride of Liverpool". I have found pictures of Woods watercolours of it, but so far nothing of boat 5.

The help provided to me earlier in the month has been invaluable.  I would like to make contact with fjaney (who shares the Martin interest)

Regards,
Portlandlib

[davecigar]

Hi,

Pilot sloop No 5 "Victoria" built in 1843 by Thos Wilson of Liverpool
Replaced in 1856 by the schooner "Victoria & Albert", built by Michael Ratsey.
She remained in service until 13th May 1888 when she was rundown and sunk by the Barque "Governor", 3 miles WNW of the Bar Lightship.
The "Criterion" No 10, a schooner built in 1854 by Thos Harvey & Sons of Ipswich, became No 5 in 1888 to replace the "Victoria & Albert" and was finally withdrawn in May 1898 and sold to the Dunkirk Pilot Service

"Pride of Liverpool" was No 8, a schooner built in 1861 by Thos Royden & Sons of Liverpool. She was sunk by the s.s "Rydal Water" on 26th February 1890.

Suggest you send fjaney a personal message through this site.

Regards
Dave

[portlandlib]

Dave,
Thanks for the prompt reply. Have followed advice re personal message.
Jan

[portlandlib]

Can I request more look ups please?  Each step I take on the family history trail reveals more Pilots!
I would like to confirm some census info if possible. (fjaney and I have now connected off line)

In the 1851 census Jane Sale(nee Martin) Pilot’s wife was living in a household with her husband William Lea Sale Pilot and her brothers Joseph Martin 17 apprentice pilot and  John  age 22( John Alfred) Pilot (You looked this up for fjaney)
In 1871 John B Sale 18yrs son of Jane Sale is listed as an apprentice pilot.

I thought that Joseph Martin (born 1833) was apprenticed in 1854 so wonder if you could check this for me and provide confirmation for William Lea Sale and John B Sale.   

Kind regards
portlandlib

[glenburn]

Hi Jan

Glad to hear that you've managed to establish contact with fjaney, who's patently a blood-relative of yours.

I could possibly have answered your questions re William Lea and John B, but it would be more than my life is worth to steal Dave or Barrie's kudos - particularly if I were to get it wrong.  :-)

However, if you don't already have it, you may be interested in the following from the Liverpool Mercury of Wednesday 10 June 1857 :-

Pilot Boat Accident.
To the Editors of the Liverpool Mercury.
Gentlemen, In your paper of the 6th instant I perceive there is a statement respecting the loss of two pilots from pilot boat No 5 (of which I am the master), when on her station at Hoylake about 14 days previously; and as some part of that statement is not correct, I will thank you to publish the following, which is in truth the reality :-

It is stated that there were two men, the one drowned and the other having died of exposure after the accident. Now the fact is, that William SALE, who was drowned, went of his own accord, to steer the punt in which two of the apprentices were having the steamer WILLIAM PENN to board; the second pilot, CASEMENT, was not in the water at all, and is now alive.
The accident occurred in consequence of the punt not being steered in such a manner as to keep her off the pilot boat's quarter.

Yours &c
Isaac WILLIAMS, first master No 5 Pilot Schooner
Liverpool
8 June 1857

Incidentally, there was also a Liverpool Pilot named George SALE, born 1877, licensed 1901, retired 1942, died 1969 (aged 92!), but there's no obvious connection to William Lea or John B(radford).