Offer:Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990

[Iria]

Hi Gordon

Glad I Could Help In Some Way

Yes its Me the same Iria Louise ..who has also  been Banned from the L&SWL Board.. I Just Couldnt Afford to Pay for the Other Site which you had to Join..its a shame really because i loved helping people on there also

Regards

Iria

[atticus]

Hi Dave

I have just been up to Liverpool and done some research, whilst there I checked in at the Maritime Museum and looked at their pilots books. There was a whole host of my family in it all Taggarts.
Richard born 1841, Robert born 1811, robert born 1860, Robert L born 1895, William born 1837, William James born 1867 and John born 1844, I took notes from the book. Does your book give any more information about them?
Since spending the last four days around the Mersey , I would love to learn more about the pilots . Can you suggest the best books to give me an insight to their work? Also is there any other places I could find records about my pilot ancestors.

Thanks for your time

Atticus

[BY]

Hi, Glenburn!

Thank you for the information re Pilot John Corrin, which identifies an error in the  record as shown in Beyond The Bar. Doubtless there are other errors. Many omissions are self-evident. It is always a pleasure to see an error corrected or a part-record completed.

Best Rgds,

BY

[glenburn]

Hy BY (presumably Barrie Youde?)

There are indeed other errors in the list of Liverpool Pilots shown in 'Beyond the Bar', including the following relating to two of my great-great-grand-uncles :-

EVANS G, licensed 1827, died in service 1879.

George EVANS (b1804 Little Meols) was in fact drowned near Bell Buoy on 3 January 1849, aged 44, as reported at http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/deathsandinquests1849.html

EVANS W(i), born 1809, licensed 1832, died in service 1833.

William EVANS (b1809 New Brighton - brother to the above George) was in fact lost in the wreck of the Norwegian brig SIBAL at Point Lynas on 15 December 1874, aged 65, the incident being reported at
http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=ConNarrative.42&chapterId=206

Best wishes
Gordon Evans
Wallasey UK

[BY]

Very many thanks, Gordon, for information provided.

Beyond The Bar is now in its Second Edition. As there are no plans for a Third Edition I must ask that you'll kindly accept my apologies for any errors identified. Please be assured that no error was intentional!

Very best,

BY

[BY]

Dear Gordon,

Please forgive observations a century-and-a-half later on the loss of your two ancestors:

1849 - Liverpool Journal reports George Evans as "quite dead" at the bell buoy.  All of our professional forefathers are to be saluted. Do we know where was "the bell buoy"? There were a great many bell buoys in later years. As to "quite dead" - this might be seen (fairly obviously) as  a mid-nineteenth century example of local-rag journalistic tautology.

1874 - William Evans - Life lost at Point Lynas, aged 65. Having survived such a long and arduous professional life, the loss of his life at that stage through perils of the sea which were commonplace at the time must have been particularly hard for his family.

Many thanks for the contribution which you make to the overall picture of family life, which was  (and still is) such a strong feature of the Pilot Service ; quite apart from any professional maritime attributes.

Very best,

BY

 

[glenburn]

Hi Barrie

In addition to the two already mentioned, at least three more of the dozen or so Liverpool Pilots in my family tree gave their lives in the course of duty :-

Edward LEDDER (b1822 Liscard) was lost from the 1000-ton iron sailing ship CHACABUCO when she was run down & sunk off Great Orme by the 198-ton Liverpool/Dublin steamer TORCH on 1 March 1873.

Albert Edward ANKERS (b1874 Liverpool) was one of nineteen pilots lost when the ALFRED H READ struck a mine in Liverpool Bay on 28 December 1917.
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28705

Thomas Ledsham EVANS (b1884 New Brighton) was one of seven pilots losts when the CHARLES LIVINGSTON  ran ashore at Ainsdale during a black-out on 26 November 1939.
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/pilotboat1.html

Another - Henry James EVANS (b1864 Liverpool) - had a near miss when the sand- hopper BETA was run down & sunk by the Booth liner AMBROSE in the River Mersey in January 1913. Henry James was one of only two survivors from the BETA, on which he'd hitched a lift back into Liverpool after taking a White Star liner out to sea.
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/BETA2.html
According to family lore this man was a 'guest pilot' on the TITANIC when she left Southampton in 1912, disembarking in Queenstown and making his own way back to Liverpool from there. He died peacefully in his bed at the Cottage Hospital in Holywell, Flint, in 1938 at the age of 72.

Incidentally, I wouldn't have thought apologies were necessary for any errors in the Appendix to 'Beyond the Bar'. If I'm not mistaken the source for this information was Tebay's 'Liverpoool Pilot Service', which is where the original errors occur?

Good to make your acquaintance, by the way.

Best regards
Gordon

[BY]

Many thanks, Gordon.

What an interesting and splendid family record!

You are quite right that much (but by no means all) of the information in the List as it appears in Beyond The Bar was taken from John Tebay's "List of Pilots", following his extensive trawl through the Minutes of the Pilotage Committee.  Much other information came from the various pension funds etc. Cross-references were made as far as was reasonably possible; but yes, I did rely to a great extent on Tebay's trawl.

Beyond The Bar was intended originally to be a collection of photographs. It gradually evolved into an Addendum  (and update) to John Rees's authoritative "History of the Liverpool Pilotage Service 1949" to provide in particular an outline account of the highly effective apprenticeship-system; about which Rees was largely silent: and which has of course now disappeared.

As a small child I would listen avidly to my father's recollections of his own days as an apprentice (with hardship and humour in equal measure) , whereupon I was hooked.

Repeated thanks,

BY

 

[glenburn]

Hi again, Barrie

As an almost exact contemporary, do you perhaps have any memories of my 4th cousin John BROWN (b1941) who attained his Liverpool Pilot's licence in 1965 - a year before you attained yours?

In particular, I wondered if you might know what it was he did to merit an award (HSA) from the Liverpool Shipwreck and Humane Society in 1961 - presumably whilst still an apprentice?

He was of course a grandson of Robert Glendenning MALIN (b1874 Liverpool), commodore of the Cunard White Star fleet from 1931 until 1935.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,748365,00.html
Robert MALIN's wife Gertrude EVANS (b1872 Liverpool) - daughter of Liverpool pilot Henry James EVANS (b1844 Liverpool) - was my 2nd cousin twice removed.

Sadly, John BROWN died at the early age of 47 in 1988, the same year you yourself left the service?

Regards
Gordon