Author Topic: Offer:Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990  (Read 200546 times)

Offline BY

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #162 on: Tuesday 27 July 10 22:12 BST (UK) »
Hi, GB!

I plead guilty.

All my own work.

As to Summer Evening, I recited it once at a lunch of the Master Mariners' Club -following which a member complained that I had not mentioned Manchester Liners. The splendid Canon Bob Evans (then aged 83) leapt to his feet and said "And Manchester Liners from Montreal, coming home with bugger all!"

As to whether or not the pilot might have any say in whether or not the ship should dock in all the circumstances, of course he does: that is what he is paid to do. It is his function to take the conduct of the ship (nothing more, nothing less) . This calls upon him to say "No" sometimes. The shipmaster who ignores a pilot's advice (and carries on, against a pilot's advice) leaves himself answerable to his owners and his insurers, to say nothing of any third party. Very few deep-sea shipmasters are willing to take the risk. Of course, the Master might be the first to say "No".  The upshot is that before any deep-sea ship moves in pilotage waters there is invariably agreement between pilot and shipmaster that she should do so.

Damage was often done when docking in bad weather. It was part of the process of keeping shipping moving. Teams of men would attend at the lockside, equipped with portable fenders, to prevent damage as far as poosible. Crates of fenders were maintained at the locksides, painted in company colours. (No doubt you will have seen them.) Head Line retained their own Pilot  (John Snowball) until the company ceased trading. They would not have done so unless they had every confidence in him and accepted any damage done as a price to be paid in their own commercial interests. All who knew him had confidence in him.

v best

BY

ps 28.07.10

A further factor in the question of whether a ship should dock in bad weather is that any harbour authority has the power to close its port (i.e. prohibit entry) to any ship. The power needs to be exercised properly and is rarely exercised: but it is exercised sometimes. It clearly was not exercised in any of the Head Line cases which you mention.

The commercial pressures upon any ship to dock on schedule are great. Shipowners, shippers (i.e. the owners of the cargo) and harbour authorities all wish to see things kept moving as a matter of profit. On the other hand, none of those three parties has the conduct of the ship.  The conduct of any ship is with her Master, who remains free to accept or ignore a pilot's advice, even in circumstances where (as at Liverpool and most large ports) pilotage is compulsory. As mentioned above, the Master of a deep-sea ship will very rarely over-ride his pilot, if only on the principal that you don't keep a dog and bark yourself.  Any shipmaster (anywhere in the world) is heavily obliged to heed the best local advice available, as given to him by his pilot. There is nobody else who is qualified to give pilotage advice. The pilot gives his advice in the form of helm orders, engine orders and all other aspects of navigation; and thus has the conduct of the ship.

In those circumstances, the first person to be looked to for a decision as to whether or not a ship should dock in bad weather is invariably the pilot.

As to law, it was settled in the House of Lords as recently as 1988 that a pilot is an independent professional who navigates as a principal: and not as the servant of any harbour authority. By the provisions of successive Acts of Parliament, the pilot is the servant of the ship, even though he is not a member of the crew. In a later case in 1993 (confirming the 1988 decision, but under a new Act of Parliament) it was observed that because the pilot is the servant of the ship he cannot at the same time be the servant of any harbour authority, on the Biblical principal that no man can serve two masters (St Mathew Chapter 6, verse 24).

Hope this might clarify things a bit.

Best

BY


Offline ElunedRussell

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #163 on: Sunday 08 August 10 16:41 BST (UK) »
There was a Leonard Crasswell who was Harbour Master in Liverpool during the 1950s and 60s. He had been a Merchant Sea Captain before he became Harbour Master. His family had strong links with South Shields. If you haven't located your Leonard yet then it is worth checking out to see if he is the one.

Lyn

Offline jue

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #164 on: Wednesday 18 August 10 22:53 BST (UK) »
hello all,,looking for any info on william mylchreest,who is listed as a liverpool pilot on the 1891,1901,and also 1911 census,,,,,,,,any info much appreciated.
thanks julie
brough staffs warwickshire/taylor rogers lancs/webb rogers staffs/delahunty ireland lancs//

Offline davecigar

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #165 on: Wednesday 18 August 10 23:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Julie,

Wm Charles Mylchreest was born in 1866, licenced as a Pilot in 1891 and died in 1918 whilst still working. He was appropriated to Manchester Liners.

In 'Returns Relating to Pilots and Pilotage' in 1895 he is attached to No 9 pilot schooner "Perseverance", aged 29, and holds a 1st Class licence enabling him to pilot any sized ship into Liverpool. In 1897 and 1900 he is attached to No 2 Steam Pilot Boat "Leonard Spear".

There is another Mylchreest listed, James Harold who was born in 1895, licenced in 1919, retired in 1960 and died in 1895. Any relation? as it's such an unusual surname.

I was at school in the 1950's with Michael Mylchreest, son of James Harold, although he did not pursue a career at sea.

The Pilot Character Book at the MMM will give you more information on their pilotage careers.

Hope this ties up a few loose ends

Regards
Dave
Cockram/Williams - Poole/Wareham, Dorset
Evans - Corwen
Dodd - New Ferry/Malpas
Jones/Williams - Caernarfon/Anglesey
Bristowe - Bratton, Wiltshire
Wells - Bath, Somerset
Fishwick/Lewis - Liverpool
Nicholson/Tennant - Ecclefechan, Dumfrieshire


Offline jue

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #166 on: Thursday 19 August 10 13:38 BST (UK) »
hi dave,thank you so much,for all that info....brilliant!
i have only just started on the mylchreest's,(they are on my husbands side).
but i do know james harold was the son of william,so anything you can remember about the family,would be good to hear.
thanks again,,,,puts a lot of meat on the bones!
julie
brough staffs warwickshire/taylor rogers lancs/webb rogers staffs/delahunty ireland lancs//

Offline ARTEMISwilde

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #167 on: Saturday 11 September 10 15:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Dave,

I am looking for information on a David Thomas, and would be grateful if you could look him up. He was born in about 1849, and in 1881 was living in 70 Lamb Street, Liverpool. His middle name was possibly Lloyd (and he was born in Wales!) According to his daughter's marriage certificate he was a Pilot (in the 1881 census he is listed as a Mariner). Any information would be brilliant. I look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Fran

Offline davecigar

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #168 on: Saturday 11 September 10 16:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Fran,
Sorry to disappoint you but I can't find any record of David Thomas.
There are 12 Thomas's in all but none fit your criteria, even birth dates.
Regards
Dave
Cockram/Williams - Poole/Wareham, Dorset
Evans - Corwen
Dodd - New Ferry/Malpas
Jones/Williams - Caernarfon/Anglesey
Bristowe - Bratton, Wiltshire
Wells - Bath, Somerset
Fishwick/Lewis - Liverpool
Nicholson/Tennant - Ecclefechan, Dumfrieshire

Offline ARTEMISwilde

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #169 on: Sunday 12 September 10 02:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Dave - thanks anyway - appreciate you going to the trouble, and getting back to me so quickly!

Best regards

Fran

Offline Robert A.C. Scott

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Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« Reply #170 on: Monday 13 September 10 05:00 BST (UK) »
Dave,

How generous, to offer this assistance to those searching, as I am, for details of service in the pilotage service on Merseyside.

In my case, I have lost access to my family records and am trying to find details of my father's service post - WWII. His name was Crawford William SCOTT (known as "Bill"), and he was born on 4th December 1921. In 1940 he was a 'Merchant Navy Cadet" at, I think, HMS Conway, though I have yet to have that confirmed.

Any assistance with obtaining details of service would be much appreciated.

Yours aye,

Robert Scott