Author Topic: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson  (Read 24046 times)

Offline jinks

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #90 on: Friday 22 August 08 08:05 BST (UK) »
Best Episode EVER!

Loved it !, loved the dry wit, the surprises, and found that
the contrasing parts of amazement, shock and humour made
not only the program interesting but suddenly I bacame interested in
Boris, and found myself laughing with him rather than at him

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Offline JenB

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #91 on: Friday 22 August 08 09:57 BST (UK) »
Getting back to the programme itself, I would be interested to know how long it actually took to do all that research, especially into the German part of the family.

Jennifer
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Offline LizzieW

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #92 on: Friday 22 August 08 10:21 BST (UK) »
Quote
I would be interested to know how long it actually took  to do all that research, especially into the German part of the family.

Jen - someone, somewhere on Roots has posted the statistics.  I seem to remember there were about 6 researchers and many more historians working on the programme and that it took about 2 months to film.  I'm sure whoever gave the statistics originally will tell us again.

Lizzie

Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #93 on: Friday 22 August 08 10:56 BST (UK) »

Jerry Springer was born in East Finchley tube station, London (13 Feb 1944), the family emigrated to the USA in 1949.

John


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Offline Aulus

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #94 on: Friday 22 August 08 11:02 BST (UK) »
Very interesting question, Jen.

Also applicable, I think, to some of the UK research.

In theory, the German (and other countries) research should really only take the same amount of time: Nick Barrett, the genealogist on WDYTYA said on Radio 5 last night that they use local genealogists.

It was a fascinating tale, but how much more complicated was it than UK genealogy?  Possibly a little simpler given the elevated status of those they were looking at.  I know from my own experience it's much easier to trace literate families than illiterate (three hundred years difference in my case ...), so it surely must be easier still if they're noble families?

Just watching it again.  

They go to the Munich archives to see the record of the ennoblement of the de Pfeffel family.
That led to the record in Munich of von Taufkirchen(?), Caroline's son-in-law trying to find out who his m-i-l von Rothenburg was.
That said she was the daughter of the actress Friedericha Pault (?).  
They then realise it would be a good idea to look at the marriage of Caroline and (Carl?) in Augsburg.
That reveals the oddity that the marriage was carried out by the Bishop in his private chapel with some seriously important witnesses, and the comment that the bishop retained the records of the marriage.
It's then pretty obvious that you go to the archives of the bishop's palace.  But they don't actually do that, as there's the deus ex machina of the genealogist finding the non-microfilmed record of Caroline's father.

If you freeze frame on where they show Boris the pencil note "Natürlicher Vater war Prinz Paul v. Württemberg" you can see another note, apparently in the same hand, and also in pencil "Vgl. Handbuch des in Bayern immatr[ikulierten] Adels unter Pfeffel Bd. IV S. 199C" - i.e. Cf. the Handbook of Bavarian Nobility, under Pfeffel, Vol 4, page 199C.

Hmmm ... and did the German genealogists not look at that first?  Before sending Boris on his (very good telly) peregrinations round Bavaria?  Do I smell a little rat in the name of telling a good story?

Boris is rightly rather suspicious of this pencil note, asking whether the BBC had crept in and written it to make the show more interesting.

Anyway, Boris gets on the train to Stuttgart quondam capital of Württemberg, where the parentage is confirmed in the royal archives.  Then he goes to Ludwigsberg to meet the guy who tells him his great x8 grandfather was King George II.  In terms of genealogical research, connecting Paul v. Württemberg to George II would take only a couple of minutes.  Of course, for telly, we 'need' to see the glorious palaces and Boris has to be taken on a literal journey as welll as metaphorical journey.

I have to stress that I'm not criticising the programme makers (or Boris), as their responsibility is to make as riveting a TV programme as they can.  Which they did.

If they're anything like some British archives,the most difficult thing after finding the marriage in Augsburg might well have been to persuade the archives to let them look at the original register, which revealed the unfilmed detail of who the father was.  Though the chap who showed the register to Boris said something like "I look after the archives", so if he's the official archivist, then he wouldn't have any problem nipping into the stacks to have a quick peek at the original.  
I do hope a lot British records offices saw that and might understand why we would occasionally like sight of the original registers!

I still want to know more about the Barony de Pfeffel.  As soon as they found the royal connection they concentrated on that, including of course the fact that although he was a direct descendant, he had no place in the accession lines due to illegitimacy.  When he was leaving Britain for Germany, Boris said he's off to reclaim the vacant barony.  It would be nice to know if he is in line for the Barony de Pfeffel.
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Offline silvery

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #95 on: Friday 22 August 08 11:11 BST (UK) »
It was very entertaining, and I think he knew lots about his family already

See the last line of this  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal_Bey

quote from the article:   Zeki Kuneralp wrote an account of his father's life in English for the benefit of the British side of the family.

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Offline Nick29

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #96 on: Friday 22 August 08 11:40 BST (UK) »
They go to the Munich archives to see the record of the ennoblement of the de Pfeffel family.
That led to the record in Munich of von Taufkirchen(?), Caroline's son-in-law trying to find out who his m-i-l von Rothenburg was.
That said she was the daughter of the actress Friedericha Pault (?).  

What really surprised me was that they had such complete archives.  One of my friends is half-German, and abandoned any hope of family tree research because so much was destroyed during WW2.   I suppose it depends on where in Germany you are researching ?

If you freeze frame on where they show Boris the pencil note "Natürlicher Vater war Prinz Paul v. Württemberg" you can see another note, apparently in the same hand, and also in pencil "Vgl. Handbuch des in Bayern immatr[ikulierten] Adels unter Pfeffel Bd. IV S. 199C" - i.e. Cf. the Handbook of Bavarian Nobility, under Pfeffel, Vol 4, page 199C.

This series was also made in high-definition, so if you watch it on BBC HD you can see much more detail on the records.  Well spotted  :)
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Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #97 on: Friday 22 August 08 12:44 BST (UK) »

WDYTYA is a television program which investigates the family history of "public persons" i.e. people who are already known to us through media coverage of sports, acting, politics or other activities.

These topics about WDYTYA on RootsChat are comments about the programs, about their findings and research methods, and about their relevance to our personal researches.

Obviously, because the persons concerned are also "known" in other contexts, these other contexts will be mentioned here, but the topics are not about these other contexts - they are about the TV programs WDYTYA

RootsChat is a forum for discussing family history, so if you want to discuss these people in other contexts, please do this in an appropriate forums - which is probably not RootsChat.

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Offline Aulus

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Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #2: Boris Johnson
« Reply #98 on: Friday 22 August 08 19:27 BST (UK) »
They go to the Munich archives to see the record of the ennoblement of the de Pfeffel family.
That led to the record in Munich of von Taufkirchen(?), Caroline's son-in-law trying to find out who his m-i-l von Rothenburg was.
That said she was the daughter of the actress Friedericha Pault (?). 

What really surprised me was that they had such complete archives.  One of my friends is half-German, and abandoned any hope of family tree research because so much was destroyed during WW2.   I suppose it depends on where in Germany you are researching ?

If you freeze frame on where they show Boris the pencil note "Natürlicher Vater war Prinz Paul v. Württemberg" you can see another note, apparently in the same hand, and also in pencil "Vgl. Handbuch des in Bayern immatr[ikulierten] Adels unter Pfeffel Bd. IV S. 199C" - i.e. Cf. the Handbook of Bavarian Nobility, under Pfeffel, Vol 4, page 199C.

This series was also made in high-definition, so if you watch it on BBC HD you can see much more detail on the records.  Well spotted  :)


Did your friend give up assuming the records would be lost or having found they were lost?  If the former, it looks like it's worth looking.

I was watching in plain old digital TV.  Maybe this is an argument for moving to HD (rather than things like "you can see every hair on the newsreader's head").
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Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

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