Author Topic: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY  (Read 41936 times)

Offline Chezp

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #117 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 19:32 BST (UK) »
Hi

Thanks mongojoby. I didn't know Louth was on a "route" and that would have probably been one of the first I'd ignore going for maybe Newark or Boston first. so that's interesting.

I've just added 1841 to the equation and that adds another three Henrys born Louth (although I think 1 may be a duplicate). So that is 11 -possible 12 - to choose from. Although just rechecking while I write this - they were all in first 1/4 so maybe not him... :-\

Going back to the route bit - was there a fairly common "route" up and down the country then? I've heard of the horse fairs and that Newark was quite central to these but was there a calendar that maybe dictated the families' movements through the year,  as in hop picking in Kent, fruit picking in the Fens etc?
Chez

Offline mongojoby

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #118 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 20:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Chez,

Sorry, wasn't meaning it come across as the air of authority, just my own opinion based on the ground Henry seems to have covered (as you say children being born there and also Dinah/ Ellen's second Ellet family popping up there on a couple of ocassions).  I am sure Ann, will have a much better idea about routes.

Given the location of Newark, I'd presume that would also be a place vistied frequently by travellers, as would have thought they would go where the main roads were.  It is for example the registration district where Barthwell, Charlotte and Sarah Smith are in 1861 (who we think have a connection with Henry).  I couldn't see a Newark registration that fitted though, hence why I picked out the Louth ones.

Jo (sorry if you didn't recognise it was me, due to not signing off message!)

Offline Chezp

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #119 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 20:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Jo

Yes, I see your logic  for maybe Louth - ie son Fred b Horncastle thats near Louth isn't it, and I hadn't made the connection with Dinah's second marriage appearing there as that's come up recently.  Seems a fairly common area for the family to have a base.

Chez

Offline An65

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #120 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 21:30 BST (UK) »
Well now, looking at the map one cant help but notice several groups of stopping places

To the south of Grantham, there is Skillington, and Castle Bytham, on the road towards Bourne. Moving northwards to Sleaford, we find Scredington, Ancaster, and Heckington

Moving north of Sleaford we find Leasingham, Kyme, Billinghay, Navenby, Metheringham, Coleby, Harmston, Dunston and Potterhanworth, Hykeham, Branston and Eagle as we get close to Lincoln.

North of Lincoln we find North and South Carlton, Burton, Springthorpe, Scampton, Corringham, Blyborough, on the road to Scarborough.

If we go back to Lincoln and move north east towards Market Rasen we find, Nettleham, Langworth and Lissington.

If we were to assume that the travel north of Lincoln was making a route to Brigg fair, and returning south by the other route, that would make sense. A popular stopping place with a lot of Romany baptisms is Wrawby a village by Brigg.

To the east of Wrawby is Melton Ross. Moving north again towards the Humber estuary we find Caistor, Winteringham Wootton and South Ferriby. Louth actually remains rather isolated to the right of Market Rasen.

South of Rasen we find Horncastle, once known for its Horse fair. In the vicinity we find Ashby, a village known for Romany settlement, like Kyme.

Directly south of Horncastle, is the hamlet of Brothertoft, near Boston (another town known for its romany settlement). to the west of Boston we find Kyme and Heckington..... on our way back to Sleaford.

If you follow the map you can see the routes they took, most likely moving into Leics and Nottingham through Mowbray and Newark along the way.

Regardless of surname, all the places mentioned have at least one romany baptism/marriage known to me.....





Offline Chezp

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #121 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 21:51 BST (UK) »
Hi An65.

Thank you for the stopping places. That makes all the various birthplaces much clearer - I can associate with so many villages you mention and most of them seem along one or two of these main thoroughfares.

I'll have look on the map. I'm wondering if I marked various birthplaces and dates whether a route would emerge. It might help me pinpoint a missing baptism for Henry's children who don't seem to be where they should be. It's worth a go anyway.

Thanks
Chez

Offline mongojoby

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #122 on: Tuesday 09 September 08 22:27 BST (UK) »
Really interesting stuff Ann, thanks for the description

Do you have any idea why North Kyme would have become a stopping place?  I visited it earlier this year, and it seems an increbibly small place and didn't strike me as an obvious place to end up.

Offline An65

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #123 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 09:25 BST (UK) »
I dont really know. There are many small villages on that list. Brothertoft is a place I know well, my father lived there as a kid, and he can remember the romanies coming each year knife sharpening, peg selling etc. They were providing a service for the villagers, most likely whilst enroute to a larger town/fair. One thing they never did was wander aimlessly. Why they chose particular places to settle I couldnt say, beyond the fact that they most likely liked certain places, found a trade they could use in the village, and/or were received well by the locals.


Offline babygirl101

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #124 on: Wednesday 10 September 08 09:30 BST (UK) »
Wisdom Smith c.1763 Steeple Claydon s/o Cain Smith
Married Hannah Smith 1782 Bletchington Ox.

They had Bethania in 1800 (married James Gray aka Mobbs)

Tabitha in 1803 (married William Gray)

Salome in 1807 (married William Smith)

Wisdom (married 1) (reputedly) Brownetta Smith, 2) Esther Smith in 1813 3) Maria Ellet (Elliot) in 1818 4) Amy Haywood in 1853.)

Salvino in 1798

Lissy/Nessy b. and died 1795

Nathaniel in 1792 married Prudence

Eunice or Unity in 1791 married James Smith

Edward in 1786 married Sarah

Absalom d.1783

and Robert in 1794 married Evening (Smith?)

-------------

Next Gen

Wisdom Smith & Maria Had:

Wisdom 1818 married Hannah Smith b.1822 the daughter of William Smith and Ann Elliot
Hercules 1821
Offa (female) 1923
Maria 1826 married Riley Smith Birch
Abigail 1829 married William Newberry/Newborough
Matilda 1831

James Smith and Eunice/Unity had:

William b.1815 married Mausolina Heron/Hearn
Wisdom b.1812 married 1) Eliza Boswell (in 1831) and 2) Hannah Smith d/o Mendoza & Ann

-----------

Next Generation

Wisdom Smith and Eliza Boswell had:

Wisdom Smith b.1934 married Priscilla Bagley.



Ann

I've just noticed that you've got Wisdom married to Amy Haywood in 1853, this marriage was confirmed as below:-

There was a marriage between an Amy Haywood in 1853, as it was reported in the Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Tuesday, September 13, 1853; Issue 2536:-

"The marriage took place on Sept 5, at the Abbey Church, Bourn, by the Rev. Walter Scott, Wisdom Smith to Amy Haywood. Both parties are gipsies, and, notwithstanding their advanced age, they tripped it gaily on "the light fantastic toe" to the fiddle and the tambourine. The buxom bride is in her 66th year, and she is the third wife Wisdom has led from the altar".


BG

Murden - Warwickshire & Nottinghamshire
Bower - Nottinghamshire (mainly Newark)
Crowder - Mansfield Nottinghamshire & Devon
Price - Newark,  Nottinghamshire
Ingleton - Skillington, Lincolnshire
Smith - All parts of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire & Lincolnshire especially Wisdom Smith, Robert & Evening Smith

Offline deb usa

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Re: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY
« Reply #125 on: Friday 12 September 08 12:57 BST (UK) »
hi everyone

I have nothing new to add except I saw this thread and thought someone may be interested ;



http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,326068.0.html

It's about old photos available on ebay; This one caught my attention;

Smith
Gypsy Smith, Wife, and Daughter. Photo Post Card.
Item number: 160279172685   

deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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