Author Topic: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!  (Read 12088 times)

Offline Lydart

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 14:17 BST (UK) »
... and for RootsChat 'experts' who can't come up with an answer ...

the answer MUST be out there somewhere !




(Its not 1st April, is it ?)
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

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Offline Hackstaple

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 14:44 BST (UK) »
With respect to the archivist - it is not difficult for an experienced person to date paper within fairly close limits i.e to within 30 years or so. Obviously the date of the paper is not an indication to the date of use.

The paper may have a watermark and that would be definitive.

Someone mentioned green ink. If it had been used it would have given a clue as all older green ink was based on copper sulphate which eventually ate through the paper.

From the scans I doubt that this graph paper which is machine feint-ruled has much age. The colour palette used for writing is certainly modern.

Normally, symbol codes on graph paper 9x9 indicate some variation on the noughts and crosses grid - very easy to decipher, but the widely different symbol sizes eliminate that.

I really should not hazard a guess but I should be very surprised if these sheets date earlier than 1950 or so but, as I say, there are hundreds of people who could date the paper without even any chemical testing if they had it to examine.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
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Offline Billy Anderson

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 15:18 BST (UK) »
Any chance of a wee photo of Speke Hall , Billy.
Anderson=Glasgow, Denny,Bathgate,Kilsyth.
=USA  Alameda,New York,Boston,Illinois.
Binning= Bathgate
Miller=Kilsyth
Black, McIntyre=Ise of Lismore
Donald=Enzie
MacDonald=Denny.
Lymburner=Denny
Wright=West Lothian
Greenhorn= Blantyre,LKS.

Offline silvery

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 15:19 BST (UK) »
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-spekehall

here you are.  I wonder if they would reply to a letter about this artifact.
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Offline nickgc

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:04 BST (UK) »
Where is the mysterious MissM?  Five days of answers and no response.  Both Paul C. and I have asked for sizes of various pieces which might go a long way to determining what this thing might be.

Nick
McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

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Offline Lydart

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:20 BST (UK) »
She was on the site Monday evening ...
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ali607

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:29 BST (UK) »
ok ive been having a bit of a think about this one again and have zoomed in on some bits. I still think its morea doodly type thing or its kiddes making some kind of game. i also think the age is erm somewhat newer than the age originally given because of a few factors:
-the colours are i would say created by felt tip pens (and these were invented in the 1960s). The colours are those which i see kiddies colouring with at school and more importantly, the colours which i can remember as a child.

- also you can see the smudge marks where the person has not been careful - lookx very much like kids freehand felt tip work to me. Give kids a big sheet of graph paper as such and they will start colouring in triangles and sqares and then theyll start being a bit more adventurous and doing more freehand stuff.

-the crosses are not exact or straight - look at the cross in the bottom left hand square on the first image - thats almost definitely done by a child i would say

- the red bits particularly i think point to felt tip pens - the reds in felt tips always dried pinky particulrly in those sets which werent very good as i remember! (i was an arty kid!) or if not it dried pinky later- AND i also fancy i can see the individual colouring in marks made by the pen (particularly red sqaure of bottom right hand square of first image)

thing is, if those colours arent felt tips, what on earth would they be...before felt tips i think they would have only had writing pens, crayons or paint - and its certainly none of those...
its just not the right colours to be those that are used in any decent kind of document like a manuscript - im working with manuscripts dating from the 1500s-1800s for my PhD  and i havent seen colours like that from the inks they used back then - ESPECIALLY not that sky blue colour which someone has drawn a moon with!

also i would agree with the person above that said that the graph paper dates it to the 20th century.

nope definitly kids i would say - perhaps it is some kind of game

Alison
Just some thoughts...
Surname interests:<br />Salter, Fulford, Woodcock, Finney, Tissington, Driscoll, Shea, Maxfield, Collier, Hughes, Williams, Petty, Pearson, Prescott, Baldwin, <br /><br />Area interests:<br />West Riding Yorkshire: Rotherham, Hemsworth, Darfield, Sheffield<br />Worcestershire/Staffordshire: Oldbury, West Bromwich, Halesowen, White Heath<br />Lancashire: Wigan, Aspull, <br />Nottinghamshire: Worksop<br />erbyshire:alfreton, ironville, codnor

Offline Lydart

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:38 BST (UK) »
It reminds me a bit of a battleships game ?

And my kids had a computer space attack game back in the days of candle-powered Sinclairs which was played on a grid very like these ... and they used to work out moves on graph paper ...
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Paul Caswell

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 20:24 BST (UK) »
The 3x3 and 5x5 pattern does fit with the kind of survey I saw being done.

At each 3x3 square you would stand in the middle square and if something applied to all nine squares then you drew the correct shape in the bigger square. You would then examine each smaller square to record fine detail.

I think the outer 5x5 arrangement helps provide a reasonable number of measurements before you have to move your guidelines.

Each shape you draw indicates the reading. Perhaps one line for a low reading, a cross for slightly higher, then an outline, then a solid triangle, and finally a solid square. There are others here, an equals, some Y shapes, a teepee shape, and those lovely arcs.

The reason it all works is because the human eye can see patterns of particular shapes and colours very easily, especially if the shapes are more solid for higher readings. Note how the first image shows a kind of leaning back backwards question-mark shape in red triangles and similar shape in yellow running almost parallel to it.

If anyone from Photo Restoration is watching could you see if the very light writing on image 2 (looks like pencil) could be brought out in some way? If this is a survey of a garden they may write notes on some squares to explain some readings. 'Holly Bush' comes to mind. :)
 
A very good point on the felt-tips. These may not be that old but they are still fascinating.

Paul
Caswell - Durham(Jarrow), Northumberland(Berwick), Dorset(Netherbury)
Drury - Middlesex(Kensington), Shropshire(Oswestry/Selattyn)
Turner - Dorset(Parkstone)
Speight - Essex(Braintree), Kent(Gravesend), Westmorland(Kendal)
Stockley - Dorset(Corfe Castle)
Amey - Suffolk(Haverhill)
Cousins - Norfolk(Ketteringham)
Sears - Bedfordshire(Potton), Cambridgeshire(Gamlingay)
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