Author Topic: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll  (Read 9702 times)

Offline SusieMc

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WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« on: Tuesday 12 August 08 15:13 BST (UK) »
Would love some help!  :)

These pictures show Herbert Stuart WOLFE and crew mates in MArch 1917. From enlarging the image, it looks to me like the ship's plate and hat emblem say 'HMS Royal Oak'. The RCD on Herbert's shoulder is the Royal Canadian Dragoons.

According to my research the ship was involved in the Grand Fleet at the BAttle of Jutland. (Would this fit with a theatre of war code 'Balkans' code...?)

I have tried to look up his name on the medal roll, but the closest I could find was a listing for 'Herbt H Wolfe'. Presume it would be easy to get a middle name initial wrong?!
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=herbt+&gsln=wolfe&=&f16=&f14=&gskw=&prox=1&db=medalrolls&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&recid=4764444&recoff=1+2+3 

I cannot get to Kew Archives, is there anyone who can access the information on this record for me to check?

Also, I had heard that he had joined the Royal Canadian Dragoons in 1914, and yet this medal roll lists him as being in the Liverpool Regiment (highly likely as he lived in the city before and after the war). Was there any connection between the two?!

Any help very gratefully received!

Thanks,
Susie




Offline liverpool annie

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:01 BST (UK) »

The Battle of Jutland,  HMS Royal Oak  by Anthony Saunders

The Battle of Jutland was fought in the North Sea between the 31st May and the 1st of June 1916. The British Grand Fleet had been virtually unopposed for nearly a century but now there was a challenge to the throne; the German Navy. Although smaller, it had caught up fast and by the time of Jutland, had some telling advantages over the British Fleet. the plan for the battle was to lure the British Grand Fleet into a lethal trap in German waters. In the event although desperately fought by both sides, the battle was a stale mate. the confused conflict was hampered on both sides by bad luck, bad weather and poor communications. at the end of the battle, the Royal navy had suffered higher losses in men and ships, but the German fleet never ventured out of harbour to seek battle again.

The Battle of Jutland proved to be the last capital ship big fleet battle of the twentieth century. Here HMS Royal Oak is seen leading HMS Superb and HMS Canada as part of the 4th battle squadron at around 7pm on the 31st of May 1916.

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http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:09 BST (UK) »
His attestation papers are on the Canadian Collections ... but they seem to be having difficulties right now !!  ::) keep trying ... if you don't already have them ...... his cap badge looks like this ... which is Kings Liverpool but on his shoulder is RCD ..... Royal Canadian Dragoons  :-\ and the cap badge of the RCD is similiar ! ... I believe it's RCD !! :)

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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

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Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline neil1821

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:19 BST (UK) »
Badge is vaguely similar to the Kings Liverpool, Annie, but not quite the same. .... I see you beat me to it  :)
http://www.central.cadets.ca/public/LHQ-QGL/2870army/images/2870crest-lg.jpg

Susie, ignore that medal card as it's not him.
If he was in the Royal Navy as well then his service record should be online, but I don't see it.
Name interests: Boulton, Murrell, Lock, Croxton, Skinner, Blewett, Tonkin, Trathen.
Military History & Medals


Offline SusieMc

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone! I'll keep trying the Canadians! I am fairly convinced it's the RCD he was in so will take your advise and ignore the Medal Card!

Out of interest, what was the background to people at that time joining a Canadian military regiment? Herbert was from Liverpool...would he have had to go to Canada for this? he certainly became a wanderer in later life...in fact he disappeared leaving his wife and children!?


Offline SusieMc

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:39 BST (UK) »
Just one thing though...

The HMS Royal Oak picture shows Herbert (back row, 4th from right)...would this imply that he was in the Royal Navy as well as the RCD? Or is there another possible explanation...   ???

Susie

Offline neil1821

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:55 BST (UK) »
Quote
The HMS Royal Oak picture shows Herbert (back row, 4th from right)...would this imply that he was in the Royal Navy as well as the RCD? Or is there another possible explanation...

Yes that's what it implies. Obviously though he couldn't be in both at the same time.
Another explanation is that the pictures actually show different people, but only you can be the judge of that.
Can't think of any other explanation immediately.
Name interests: Boulton, Murrell, Lock, Croxton, Skinner, Blewett, Tonkin, Trathen.
Military History & Medals

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 17:03 BST (UK) »


The only other thing I can think of is that the date on the Royal Oak picture is wrong !!  :-\

Depending on the date on his attestation papers .... it could have been before or after the war ! I would suggest that it may have been the way he got to Canada .... and he possibly jumped ship ... and joined up there ! ( I have one of those !!  those Liverpool lads can be a pain to trace !! .... especially when the Navy is involved !! ::) )

Annie  :)
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline mmm45

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Re: WW1 - HMS Royal Oak - Photo ID and Medal Roll
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 17:29 BST (UK) »
If he jumped ship in Canada he would have it on his Service Record(if you can find it!)....Just wondering if sailors in wartime wore the ships name on their cap tallys  or just had HMS Ships in case of spys??

Ady
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Researching all Great War soldiers from the Spen Valley of West Yorkshire Especially lads from the Cleckheaton Company of 1/4th West Riding Regiment.