The mother of all brick walls!

[Timbottawa]

"... where HE appears ...", not "her"!

[Koromo]

Hi Tim

I'm so glad that you were able to get into the Gale newspapers and find some more info. 

The fact that you can't find Henry Butler on censuses before 1881 might indicate that BUTLER was his stage name. But if all his children are BUTLERs then it could be his real name!    I can only give the example from my actor family:

Edwin WHITAKER b. 1855 is so named when he is at home with his parents
1881 and 1901 censuses: he is E. W. BRETTON, actor, his stage name
He married 1881 as WHITAKER (confirmed by cert.)
1882: his son was born as WHITAKER who subsequently spent years as a career soldier as BRETTON
Still don't know what name his death is registered — there are no Edwin BRETTONs, but a handful of likely Edwin WHIT(T)AKERs.

Do keep searching the newspapers. It took me quite a while to get the knack of how to search effectively. I found the Basic search form was the easiest, putting Era (without the The) in the publication/newspaper box. Then you might search on Butler AND Tremaine which will bring up pages with both those words — searching on Butler Tremaine will be treated as a phrase.

Regards
Koromo

[Timbottawa]

Thanks Koromo,

I just think that Butler is a real name ... I've traced more than a dozen lines to living relatives, and while some of them knew of the Tremaine (Tremayne/Tremain) name, none of them have ever questioned the Butler name - and some of them are still named Butler!

There's another minor mystery, in that Margaret's maiden name on some, but not all of the children's birth certificates is given as "Margaret White McHale".  She was born simply as Margaret McHale.  This made me wonder about an earlier marriage, but there are no credible combinations of a McHale-White marriage followed by a Butler-White marriage.  So where does White come from?  An earlier stage name, perhaps?

Cheers
Tim

[lizdb]

I was wondering if the White came from her own family - perhaps her mums maiden name or something.
But from 1861 amd 1851 censuses and FreeBMD I have found her mum was Frances, nee Raper, who her dad married in 1843. Frances must have died, as her dad remarried to Louisa Green in 1860. Louisa must have already had child(ren) form a previous marriage/relationship.

I expect you have all this, but if not and want further details just shout.

But it does nothing to indicate where the "White" came from or to help find Mr Butler's origins!

[carol8353]

There's another minor mystery, in that Margaret's maiden name on some, but not all of the children's birth certificates is given as "Margaret White McHale".  She was born simply as Margaret McHale.  This made me wonder about an earlier marriage, but there are no credible combinations of a McHale-White marriage followed by a Butler-White marriage.  So where does White come from?  An earlier stage name, perhaps?

Cheers
Tim

Hi Tim,

Have you tried on Scotlands people for Margaret?

The name White added to her name sounds a bit Scottish to me 

Carol

[Timbottawa]

Thanks lizdb

Indeed, her mother was Frances Raper, originally from Thirsk, who met her father, Hubert McHale, when both were servants at an estate near Exeter in about 1840 (they appear together in 1841 as servants).  Frances died of TB and Hubert re-married, to Lousia Green, as you note.  They had another couple of children.  In Hubert's will there was no provision for any of his children with Frances.  So no White there!

Carol ... Margaret's father, Hubert, was born in Sussex to a former soldier named Thomas McHale from Crossmolina, Co. Mayo.  His mother, Ann, was also Irish.  So no Scottish connection as far as I know!

Cheers
Tim

[ShaunJ]

Reading this thread, I just wondered if there is a connection to (Edwin) Henry Butler who was born Chepstow circa 1818 and was a comedian and theatrical agent, mentioned many times in The Era. He had a son Thomas Henry Sherwin Butler born London 1851 who appears on the 1871 census with his parents as a shipping clerk age 20 and married, but has no spouse with him (he's indexed in Ancestry for 1871 as Florean H Butler).  Could Thomas Henry be Henry Thomas? I know the age is slightly out - he's about 5 years too young, but he couild have added a few years to impress Margaret!

[Timbottawa]

Thanks Shaun, That's an intriguing possibility.  Quite a few inconsistencies, but then again this fellow is full of inconsistencies!  As mentioned previously his age is particularly elastic.  I shall look for Thomas Henry Sherwin in the 1881 census - if he's there, he's not my fellow, who I have in 1881.

Cheers
Tim (off for my morning run now!)

[Timbottawa]

Shaun ... have you been researching this family?  I can't find Thomas Henry in the 1881 census!  Cheers
Tim