Desperately seeking Sarah

[whoamI2008]

Hello,

I am having great difficulty in tracing a marriage between my paternal GGrandparents James Smith (b c1835 Rochdale) and Sarah Bridgwater (b c1830 Shropshire). The birth dates are unreliable as they fluctuate from census to census.

I do realise that they may not have legally married, but I hope they did.

My paternal grandmother was Elizabeth Mawbey nee Smith (b Feb 1868 Alfreton) a daughter of James and Sarah, her birth certificate confirms both parents names (as does her elder sister's Charlotte also born in Derbyshire)

The first reference I have where James and Sarah are together is the 1861 census for Clerkenwell - James Smith, Sarah (wife) and a 2yr old son born in Scotland.

Class: RG9; Piece: 196; Folio: 125; Page: 28;

I also have Sarah's death certificate Sarah Smith aged 41 died Sept 1871 Ingleton Fells Settle. They were a Navvy family - James Smith was a railway tunnel miner at this time on the Settle to Carlisle railway construction (1871 census, Jordan Camp, Class: RG10; Piece: 4252; Folio: 34; Page: 18;)

I have spent many hours sifting through the indexes available but cannot find a marriage index. I have also searched the Scottish records for a marriage and a birth record for the son , but to no avail.

I may be flogging a dead horse here but without a marriage I will be unable to obtain James' and Sarahs' Fathers' names to identify the correct Smith and Bridgwater families

I do hope that some one here can help or suggest any way of confirming a marriage
Many thanks in advance for anyone who can help
Cheers
Graham

[heywood]

I do realise that this is not concrete evidence but 1841 has only one Sarah Bridgewater born Shropshire and her year of birth is given as 1830. I am sure though that you have researched this one.

HO107; Piece 917; Book: 8; Folio: 4; Page: 13
parents: John and Mary (although no relationships are given)

there is no sign of this family yet in 1851- tried various searches

Their family names don't give any obvious clues to their parents but that 1841 entry does seems somewhere to start.
sorry I can't be more help
heywood

[heywood]

I thought I had something re marriage but not sure:

Free BMD has 1858 marriage for a Sarah Bridgewater - Cleobury Mortimer district which is the right one for 1841 census- there is a groom missing but I have called myelf to check full index to match a James Smith to no avail!


added;
this is possibly Sarah in 1851 - as Bridgewaters. The age is different to the 1841, 1861,1871 so again you probably have this too.

HO107; Piece: 1985; Folio: 34; Page: 28

[whoamI2008]

I thought I had something re marriage but not sure:

Free BMD has 1858 marriage for a Sarah Bridgewater - Cleobury Mortimer district which is the right one for 1841 census- there is a groom missing but I have called myelf to check full index to match a James Smith to no avail!


added;
this is possibly Sarah in 1851 - as Bridgewaters. The age is different to the 1841, 1861,1871 so again you probably have this too.

HO107; Piece: 1985; Folio: 34; Page: 28

Thanks Heywood,

I have already seen all of these. 

The name Bridgwater is variable it can have an 'e' in the middle or could be or have an 's' on the end or both!
The name on my Grandmothers and her sisters birth certificate is definately BRIDGWATER without either e or s.

I also checked that marriage on FreeBMD and like you checked the relevant Quarter's Smith's.

There is a John Lambert with a wife Sarah on the 1861 census RG9; Piece: 1846; Folio: 88; Page: 14 living in the Cleobury Mortimer Reg Dist with 3 children, the oldest child being Mary, birth reg Mar Qtr 1859, so I would say that this accounts for that Sarah.

Cheers
Graham

What is also puzzling me is the fact that James smith was supposedly born in Rochdale Lancashire - Sarah in Shropshire  and in 1861 they are living in Clerkenwell Middlesex with a child born in Scotland

I know that this branch of my ancestors were all Navvies and assume the change of places are due to railway construction.

[heywood]

Hi again ,
I was just reading the other thread about this - yourself or a relative?
 
I have just googled Aberfeldy and on a site it says the railway arrived c 1865 but the railways were being developed so as you say that is perhaps why he moved around the country.
Similarly, Cleobury was on a route as was Neen Sollars where the 1841 Sarah is.
Somehow you can't imagine that Sarah would be so mobile.

The Sarah Bridgewaters found in 1851 census is born 1835 Milson.
I can't quite remember how much of this is in the other thread but the Sarah Bridgewater Lambert person was born 1836 Milson also according to 1861 census. I would imagine that the following is her.

1841 HO107; Piece 917; Book: 7; Folio: 4; Page: 2 has a Sarah Bridgwater b 1834 in Milson. The parents here are probably Robert and Mary.

As far as I am aware it was only adults who had ages rounded in 1841- not that it will always be the rule- rules are always open to interpretation I suppose.

[heywood]

trying to round up the info - but sadly not getting anywhere

1841  HO107; Piece 913; Book: 1;  Folio: 20; Page: 9
St Milborough Stoke Shropshire
Sarah Bridgewaters aged 5 yrs with a group of people - none sharing her name.

There is an 1850 marriage in Tenbury district - Sarah B to John Davies. This could be the Neen Sollars one- she would be 20 ish.

[whoamI2008]

Hi Heywood

I apologise for the duplication of subjects, the other thread is my daughters. I had not realised she had posted about this.

I have also searched the Aberfeldy option and, I think, every other scottish place on the Scottishpeople website (a bit expensive I must say) although I did learn that my Grandfather Walter Mawbey died in scotland.

But this doesn't help the task at hand.

I have tried to do lateral searches on Bridgwater name variations but without any success I also searched marriages for James Smith and meticulously sifted through each one but again without success.

The only reason I posted on here was in the hope that someone with more experience may have a more lateral mind than me and be able to ferret out a misspelling or other mistake in the indexes or transcriptions

I have rechecked the 1858 FreeBMD marrige for Sarah with the missing Groom but sadly after looking at the image have determined that this Sarah Bridgwater and John Lambert are legitimate entries and the third entry is the error (error in page number transcription, which I have reported to FreeBMD)

I am now compiling a list of all Bridgwater marriages for the time period 1845 ish to 1861 with a view to find if sarah was previously married.

Not a task I envy

I know that there are only a few Sarah Bridgwaters turning up in the census returns but its hard confirming which one is the right one without the benefit of the marrige.

cheers
Graham
 

[heywood]

good luck Graham - I would say from this evidence that the 1858 marriage and Mr Lambert are the c1835 Sarah born Milson - so she could go on the 'nack burner' for a while.
I would imagine that if they did marry it would be in England - I can't see Sarah going to Scotland as a single woman- however anything is possible.
There are also so many scenarios re 'did she marry someone else first - then...' etc.
Once you have sorted what you can, funds allowing, that 1850 marriage may be worth checking out- if only to eliminate whichever Sarah it is. She would have been 20ish so it would be feasible.
best wishes
heywood