Lightowlers Link to Littleborough

[prlights]

Hi All

Hopefully the title got your attention.

Doing some web searches threw up this:

George Redmonds - "Migration and the linguistic development of surnames"
the snippit said it could be found in Family History 11 n. 77/78.
Apparently it traces the name Lihtolers from 13th Century Littleborough
and it's tranformation and spread into Yorkshire.

I have been trying in vain to source a copy.

Apparently Dr Redmonds is an expert on Yorkshire names (and Lancashire in this case).

The document sounds too good to be true - but here's hoping!

Let me know if you've already seen it - or can get a copy.

Regards

Paul Lightowlers

ps message to Dave the Tyke (Hi Dave, have you changed your email address?)

[dave the tyke]

I didn't have any luck finding a copy either, but there is a booklet Yorkshire Surnames Series 3 - Halifax & District by George Redmonds

Here is my take on the Lightowler name

The name Lightolres and it's variants, in the author's opinion, is derived from the phrase 'Lea of the Olres' (Alder's). Local dialect corrupts this to Lea o' t' ahlers and then Lea't'ahlers in exactly the same way that the name Lightowlers is pronounced in the same dialect.
It has been propounded that the name derives from a place where there is a light or sparse covering of Alder trees as opposed to a dense growth. The author disputes this on grounds that  the Alder is a pioneer species which requires lots of light and grows in wetland regions. Although there are wetland areas dominated by Alder where the growth is known as an Alder Carr, there are no areas where the growth could be said to be 'dense' and therefore by inference it would be pointless to have an area where Alders were 'sparse'.

I've sent you a PR re email address

Dave

[bopsey]

Hi Paul and Dave,

I have a copy of the journal it's in. I obtained it as a backnumber from The Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical studies. Its in Family History, Vol 11 Nos 77/78 or new series nos 53/58. I can send details if you want.

....Ive always assumed it meant light-as opposed to dark-alder trees!

Linda Lytollis

[kooky]

Good morning Bopsey!
Kooky

[dave the tyke]

Hi Linda,
Yes there may be something in that. There are two types of Alder which grow in this country Common or Black Alder Alnus glutinosa and the Grey or European Alder Alnus incana
The properties of Alder wood i.e. its use for piles in wet conditions has been known at least since Roman times and I suspect that the dyeing abilities of various parts of the tree have also been known for a very long time.
If there are differences in usage then our ancestors would have known about them and 'sitting' on a plot of a particular type could have been advantageous.

Do you still have my email address ?

Dave

[prlights]

Hi Everyone

Getting back into researching 'Lightowlers' again (I wish I could devote more time!); I have had to rebuild my original fusiveweb site. New site is here www.lightowlers.yolasite.com . I have just added an interesting link re Vikings in the Rochdale area - I've got red hair, as did my paternal grandfather - maybe something in it???

One website gives this "A number of explanations have been offered for the meaning, the best explanation is that it is a development of the Olde English pre 7th century "liste-alr", meaning "a copse of light alder trees", or similar." So maybe Linda has got us on the right trail (alr is correct, not sure about meaning of liste though).

Regards

Paul

[prlights]

Hi Again

I've got to record this before I forget - in Old Norse (Viking) lita or possibly litr, means to stain(colour), and olr, means Alder tree.

Paul

[dave the tyke]

Yes Paul, that at least qualifies the 'Alder' part and the keeping of sheep / dying of wool would explain the first part.

Has anyone been able to explain the armorial arms and the use of the Caltraps. The Rampant Lion could have been used by just about anyone but to incorporate the 'Devils Thorns' suggests that this family used them at some stage and that the devise was 'granted'. Perhaps during the crusades and maybe we have patent on the use of stingers !!!

A seal bearing the Lion and his name circumscribed was used by William de Lightolres on a deed dated 1281.

Going back to the Littleborough connection - I have an Elizabeth Lightowlers b 1598 married John Roide of Baitings Gate in 1621. Now 200 years later this was written -

James Royds' account of the family (1826)

Copy of papers found at Mount Falinge in 1842 in the handwriting of James Royds who died 2nd Feby 1842
 Memm. Off hand September 1826
My Grandfather James Royds lived at Deeplishill near Rochdale and died there before I was born I think about 66 years old. I have heard my father say that my grandfather lived in Yorkshire & I have some recollection of Windy Bank or Townhouse being his former residence & that a brother lived at townhouse near Littlebro'.  ......

I have Windy Bank and Baitings Gate down as key locations in my research of Yorkshire Lightowlers.

[mbewleym]

Any Of you still researching lightowlers? My grandmother was a Laura Lightowler born about 1870-75 in or around hull Yorkshire She married a Frank Lord abt 1896 Had three children. Red hair is predominant in our family.