Can someone please date this lady and baby for me? COMPLETED - THANKS EVERYBODY

[Maggie.]

Now then.......... 

Attached, hopefully, are the lady we all now know and love, and also a mystery woman.
Can anyone see any similarities between the two?

There MAY be a connection between the hatted lady - and I have little idea who she is - and my gt. grandfather's SECOND wife, whom he married 2 years after the death at of his first wife at 26 years.  So far, we have been speculating that the lady with baby is his FIRST wife.

  

[toni*]

you should be able to get a date for the hatted lady from the card, Brixton 54, the directories will have photographers in Brixton listed, is there anything on the back?

[Maggie.]

On the quite ornate reverse side is:-

Ward's
Studio of Art
54 Brixton Road
near Kennington Church
London

Artist in photography established 1851

I think I have it dated as 1870s - no info. in front of me right now so this is off the top of my head.  The lady I think it COULD be died in 1877 aged 66.

Another interesting observation I have just made on looking at this photo of the hatted lady again is that there is a very good imprint of a baby's bite (teeth marks) at the top left hand corner - whether this was always there or whether one of our children got at it when they were very young I have no idea     

[oldtimer]

Hi Maggie 

I can see no resemblance between the ladies 

Can I throw my opinion into the ring?

Both mother and child alive - mother ill, child restless. However, your comment about why they had the photo was taken has set me thinking!! I wonder why her husband wasn't included in the group?

I am looking forward to those certificates!! Keep us posted!!

Judy 

[oldtimer]

Looking again at the photo - doesn't the mother's right hand look big!!

[Maggie.]

Hi Judy,

Thanks for your opinion - it is very welcome and ever bit helps 

Yes - I wonder where Dad is    Unless it really WAS taken because they were both ill, as a memorial pic. so dad felt he didn't belong.  Seems a bit heartless to my way of thinking but it was viewed rather differently back then I suppose.

You are right about the right hand, I think I have mentioned somewhere that my OH thought it looked like a bunch of bananas  .  It looks swollen to me.

I've been doing a spot of googling tonight to see what medical condition might explain those black marks on her hand.  A suggestion from JJ's OH that it might be gangrene got me going.    Anyway, whilst no medical expert, I have discovered that severe secondary Raynaud's disease can cause tissue death in the extremities resulting in gangrene!!  Raynaud's disease can also result from problems with the thyroid, amongst other things.  I wonder what those death certificates will reveal 

I am a bit intrigued with the Raynaud's disease possibility - could it explain the swollen right hand and the black marks on her left hand 

Maggie

[PaulaToo]

The two ladies have the same oblong face...but apart from that...don't really like to say one way or the other...

I've looked for the marks on the left hand and can't find them. I think the marks on there look just another part of the botching of the rejigging of the picture.

Myself I think she has her left elbow rested on something...the arm of the chair perhaps, and the fingers are relaxed, curled under and lightly resting on the child...

Good all these ideas, aren't they.

By the way, you could look and see if you have anyone on the census returns who only had one leg....
I still can't find the other one in the original photo. There are no lumps or bumps in the frock anywhere, and if it is under the child's hand...then the child is doing the splits.

[oldtimer]

Hi Maggie

My great great aunt died of syncope (which I read means a blackout, seizure  or fainting fit - not much help) due to Raynauds Disease. She was 40 years old.

There is a bit about the disease here -

http://www.medicinenet.com/raynauds_phenomenon/article.htm

Sorry I mis-read your earlier comments about her hand. I thought you meant her left one, which looks as if it has been painted over!


Judy  

[Maggie.]

By the way, you could look and see if you have anyone on the census returns who only had one leg....

All seem to be fully limbed Paula..... at least there is no mention of them NOT being 

Thanks for the Raynaud's link Judy - I still think its a possibility ............................

I say good detective work all round