Author Topic: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me? COMPLETED - THANKS EVERYBODY  (Read 16627 times)

Offline monkeymagik

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #99 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 14:07 BST (UK) »
:o Oldtimer I also had a dream about the photo last night, and not a not very nice dream either. One of those dreams that you keep remembering the day afterward with a bit of a shudder.
 
Looking forward to those certs arriving Maggie!


Offline Maggie.

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #100 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 15:31 BST (UK) »
So am I, monkeymagik   ;D

In fact I got 2 this morning but they merely confirm the marriage of my gt. grandfather to the lady who it might, and only might, be in the photo.  They add nothing to this post and tell me little I didn't already know, just merely confirm the lady's maiden name and the birth of their 1st son who I know lived into aldulthood.

The really interesting ones could come any day now and they are the death certs and I am interested in the causes of deaths to see how they may fit in.  Also the birth cert of the baby I knew nothing about - they moved towns so separate requests required.

I am aware that these certs are not really appropriate postings for this photo dating & restoration thread so I am wondering where to start a new one - where would be the best place to put the info?  Common Room?  Lancashire?

Maggie
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Offline oldtimer

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #101 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 15:42 BST (UK) »
Monkeymagic!!  ;D How weird!!  :o :o :o We should sue Maggie for giving us nightmares!!  ;D ;D ;D  My dream was reminiscent of the tv adaptation (many moons ago) of the Susan Hill novel, The Woman in Black!!  :-X :-X :-X

Back to the photo  :P

I don't think that there is a leg missing; he has them both together,  swung over his mother's lap, in my opinion. Perhaps that was the most comfortable way for the mother to hold him, as he seems a large baby, and may have slid off her lap!  ;D

I can see how the child's eyebrows seem to have been drawn on, also the lines drawn between mum's fingers. On the enlargement of her face that you posted, it even looks as though someone has drawn in those lines under her eyes, almost like eyeliner!I read a post by (I think it was) Prue recently about if the photographer wasn't very  experienced and the photo turned out a bit duff, he would retouch it in the studio. However, I hardly think he would give her black fingernails, which can clearly be seen  :-\ :-\  Tis a puzzlement!!!

I too think that she has a slight smile on her face! She certainly doesn't seem to be grieving! (In my opinion!)

If the child is wearing a christening gown as someone suggested, the photo may have been taken to enable the parents to send copies to distant relatives unable to attend the ceremony.

Just a few more idle thoughts  ::) ::)

Judy  ;)
Best wishes, Judy :-))


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Offline oldtimer

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #102 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 15:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Maggie  ;)

I think we posted at the same time!!

I think it will be ok to post your certificate info here -it is going to be relevant to this posting.

Judy  ;)

we are all waiting with bated breath for it!!!!!
Best wishes, Judy :-))


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Offline PaulaToo

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #103 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 16:14 BST (UK) »
I love this thread.... ::)
If you post the cert, cut a bit off, that way I think you will get round rules and reggies.
Can't wait, almost like waiting for one of my own!
Bartlett/Henley on Thames
Caponhurst/Buckinghamshire and?
Denchfield/North Marston/Bucks
Webb/Winchester
Mathias/Pembroke/Pembroke Dock
John/Pembroke/Pembroke Dock
Smith/Portsmouth/Portsea
Purchas/Bucks and?
Olliffe/Bucks

Offline PaulaToo

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #104 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 16:48 BST (UK) »
Ooops, just realised that straight line down to the foot....it's the leg in a white sock, or perhaps some form of leggins... :-[ no wonder it's straight....
Still doesn't explain why that lacey bit is to crisp and clear when just about it is so foggy.
Bartlett/Henley on Thames
Caponhurst/Buckinghamshire and?
Denchfield/North Marston/Bucks
Webb/Winchester
Mathias/Pembroke/Pembroke Dock
John/Pembroke/Pembroke Dock
Smith/Portsmouth/Portsea
Purchas/Bucks and?
Olliffe/Bucks

Offline Maggie.

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #105 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:31 BST (UK) »
Ohhh dear Judy & Monkeymajik - so sorry about the nightmares - mind you, I think I nearly joined you in nightmare-land last night due to that awful ferret   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Ok - I'll post the certs, but perhaps not the two I got today as they are only confirming-type certs.  I'll type the relevant bits from these 2 certs though:-

The family is called ROSTHORN.  My gt. grandfather was Edward Rosthorn, born 1844 in Blackburn, Lancs, son of Thomas Rosthorn.  On 9th April 1866, at St Albans Chapel, Blackburn, according to the Rites & Ceremonies of the Catholic Church, Edward married his first wife Margaret MOORE, daughter of John Moor deceased.  Both Edward and Margaret were residents of Blackburn when they married.  Edward signed the marriage cert, and gave his occupation as Cotton Spinner, but Margaret - Power Loom Weaver - put her mark.  A child Thomas was born to the couple on 7th April 1868, at 11 Shuttleworth St, Blackburn.  On this birth cert. Edward gives his occupation as Cotton Piecer.  

The only surprise here is that it was a Catholic marriage - I didn't know that.  Nice to have some addresses as well.

I know there was a second child, Jane born 1870 in Accrington, Lancs - correct mother and father but I am awaiting her birth certificate.  Both Thomas and Jane I have followed through the census records, as I have their father until his death in 1910 in the Workhouse Infirmary, Rawtenstall, Lancs, aged 66 years cause of death Hemiplegia, Softening of the Brain.  Thomas, the son, died in 1894, at the family home aged 25, of Pneumonia 14 days.

Until a few days ago I thought Thomas and Jane were the only children of this couple but I have now found a birth in Accrington in 1871 of a John ROSTHORN with mother Margaret nee MOORE.  I am waiting for this birth cert.

I couldn't find these next deaths in the freeBDM sites, but findmypast produced evidence of the death of a Margaret ROSTHORN in the March Qtr of 1872, district Haslingden (this is correct for an Accrington death).  I know from Margaret's newspaper obituary that she died on January 1st 1872, so I am confindent I have the correct worman.  Also, findmypast revealed the death in the June Qtr 1872 of a John ROSTHORN, Haslingden, aged 0 yrs (that's less than 12 months old).  I am waiting for these certs also and I am VERY interested to know what these two died of.  There is no mention of a John ROSTHORN living with the family in the census records.

A further complication as far as the photograph is concerned is that in 1874, 2 years after the death of Margaret, Edward married my gt. grandmother - Mary Jane GILL at the Church of St John the Evangelist, Accrington (not Catholic).  Mary Jane had an illegitimate daughter who adopted the name ROSTHORN, and with Edward there were 2 more girls born abt. 1875 and 1877.  My grandfather, Hargreaves ROSTHORN was born in 1882.  There is a gap here which could indicate the birth and death of a child - relevant to the photo maybe  ???  All the children from both marriages resided together at Robert Nuttall Street Accrington with Edward and Mary Jane until the death of Mary Jane of Bronchitis, aged 66 in 1895.

The next bit is not relevant to this thread but Edward married a 3rd time to an Ann LEAVER and acquired yet another step daughter.

Phew  ::)  I hope I haven't frightened you all off with boredom.... but actually it has been good to get it down like this......... and I cannot thank you enough for your help and interest.

Maggie
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Offline deb usa

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #106 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:52 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone

I have been keeping up with this thread ... it's quite fascinating!

I don't really have much to add except that the 'mother' is holding her baby very casually. Her hand placement just seems to be odd, especially the clenched hand. 

She seems to be 'removed' from the baby.

hope the certs reveal all...good luck!

deb :)

added ; Paula , I think the sleeves look different as she seems to have a bracelet/bangle thingy on her right (as you are looking at her) wrist.
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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Offline terry h

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Re: Can someone please date this lady and baby for me?
« Reply #107 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 17:56 BST (UK) »
Quote

I don't think that there is a leg missing; he has them both together,  swung over his mother's lap, in my opinion. Perhaps that was the most comfortable way for the mother to hold him, as he seems a large baby, and may have slid off her lap! 

Judy 

I agree with Judy  I also think his legs are together and swung over mother's lap. Great thread I keep coming back.

Terry

g grandfather Thomas Borthwick 11/11/1882 - KIA 25/9/1915 aged 33 Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Brothers & cousins to Thomas (Both KIA same day)
Robert Johnstone Borthwick 1898 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 21 North Staffordshire Regiment

George Lowden Borthwick 1899 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 19 Royal Scots Fusiliers

gr Uncle Walter Combe b1893 - KIA 12/7/1915 aged 22  Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright  GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk