Crosinbar? Trying to locate Gt Gt Grandfather

[nsc]

Hello,

Can anyone help?

My Gt Gt Grandmother was Martha Hope, born c1834 in Nantwich, Cheshire. In the 1861 census, she is visiting her parents as Matrtha Moulton, aged 27, a Carter's Wife.

She is there again in 1871, (aged 35 ) with an 8 year old son, William Moulton, born in Montgomery, South Wales.

In later censuses, William records his birthplace as Crossinvar (I assume, a phonetic interpretation), Wales. In the 1901 Census, though, it looks like Crosinbar and someone has, it seems, written Carmarthenshire next to it. It may be somewhere like Croes (or Groes) yn fawr (or bach).

Anyway, I can't locate his birth, his father, nor his place of birth.

Can anybody help?

Thanks

Neil

[Arranroots]

Hi Neil

Have you obtained any certificates for these events?

Looking at Freebmd there are a few possible births for William - only one in the right timeframe is in Wales (a bit early) and that's Monmouthshire.

This looks like a possibility for the marriage and it seems that the following birth registration might be your William - perhaps he was born in Cheshire after all?

Marriage

Sep 1857

Nantwich 8a 383

Martha HOPE

MOULTON John

Birth

Sep 1872

Nantwich 8a 336

MOULTON William

Kind regards, Arranroots 

[Gadget]

See this thread to avoid any duplicate searching:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314330.0.html


William born circa 1863, Arranroots 


Gadget 

[Arranroots]

Thanks Gadget!

Just been doing some shotgun searching - how about these?

Glamorgan

Croes y Parc

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/PeterstonSuperEly/

Montgomeryshire

Croes Isaf (lower cross) - a farm in Llanidloes

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/POWYS/2007-03/1174637576

Carmarthenshire

Croes Ifan, Trelech

http://www.carmarthenshire-pages.co.uk/places/arts.htm

[Gadget]

The Croes Isaf  and Ifan look possibles - it must be Croes or Groes <something> 

However, there are a couple of Four Cross settlements in Montgomery   

As I  said on the other thread, there is nothing showing in Montgomery for William. It might be that he was born there and registered somewhere else or not registered 

I've been looking for father John but nothing so far that looks anything like. As he was a carter, he could be anywhere


Gadget 

[Arranroots]

I wonder what William said about his father when he married?

Maybe John died before 1861 (which would explain why Martha is at home with her parents) and William was illegitimate?  It wasn't uncommon for births to go unregistered in those days, so by changing districts Martha might have got away with it?

On the other hand, there are lots of William HOPEs registered.

Sorry to cast nasturtiums, but it's a possible explanation ...

 

[Gadget]

Yes - the more families I look into the more I think that all is possible 

There is a Groes-fawr in Denbighshire - just north of Ruthin. I looked at it this morning but rejected it. Then found the Carmarthenshire written in on the 1901.

here it is anyway:

Click for Groes-fawr

[nsc]

I can confirm Martha Hope's marriage to John Moulton - 13 Sept 1857 (Nantwich Parish Records).  He was a labourer, and his father, George, was a butcher (living in Beam Street, Nantwich). Thus, marriage predates birth.

Yes, William's marriage certificate would be interesting.

Just a thought - on my mother's side, there are links to Llandudno. Was that in Caernarvonshire? (Carmarthenshire???)

[Gadget]

Llandudno was/is in Caernarvonshire:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Llandudno/index.html

Unfortunately,that's one of the areas that's not on the North Wales BMD 

Glad about the John info - so you might be able to find the Moultons  on earlier censuses now 


Gadget