John MONTAGUE - convict transported to Western Australia-arriving 1852

[debandbill]

My gg grandfather was transported to Australia for 14 years - arriving Aug first 1852 on ship - William Jardine.  His convict record provides the following information. Unmarried on arrival. Dyer; convicted in Central Criminal Court 7.4.1851, Housebreaking, prev conv, 14ys.

I have managed to obtain a copy of what happened in each of his court cases - but unfortunately have not been able to obtain any details of where he lived in London - or who his family / parents were. In the first case he was convicted using the name John Henderson. ( I am assuming his name was actually Montague - as this was the name he was transported under.Both of the crimes he was convicted for took place in fairly central London- one at Clapham and the other at Clerkenwell. His arrival information says that he was 24  at sentencing -  so he was probably born around 1827. His age on his death certificate would imply that he was born later - maybe 1832?

Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I go from here? I have not yet had a look at census 1841 census info - not even sure what area to search. I obtained the information about his court cases from a site that copied information from a book that was published for the public to read about the trials - I am wondering if the actual records might give more precise information - including addresses etc.

Any hints - ideas etc would be greatly appreciated as I am stuck on this one.

Deb

[trish1120]

Hi Deb,

Had a quick look on 1841 census, lets hope he was from Middlesex as there are very few John montagues there. Will search again tomorrow as late now and must go off to bed.

Loved his physical description on Convicts site;

John Montagu,
5ft 5 1/2,brown hair, hazel eyes, fair skin, stout, 2 setons? back of neck and cut over eye aka Montague, Montaug

Trish

[sparrett]

Hi Trish,
I too do wonder what is a seton.  Could be very bad things. Could be wonderful.  Anything from wooden teeth to tattoos!!

Here is one definition.  MMMmmm.....don't know 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seton_stitch

Sue

[JJdownunder]

from the Fremantle Prison website


MONTAGU, John 
 
  Convict No 1349
 Ship Name William Jardine
 Ship Arrival Date 1 Aug 1852
 Alias aka MONTAGUE
 Birth Date 1828
 
 
 
 Marital Status Unmarried
 Occupation dyer
 
 
 Sentence Date 7 Apr 1851
 
 
 Sentence Country England
 Court Cent Crim Ct
 Length of Sentence 14yrs
 Crime house breaking
 
 Ticket of Leave Date 6 Jun 1854
 
 Known Areas Perth
 
 Permission to Marry 5 Feb 1858
 Married Mar Mary DOOLAN, 27 May 1858, Guildford, RC

JJ
 
 
 
       

[JJdownunder]

Marriage
MONTAGUE JOHN Male
DOOLAN MARIA Female
GUILDFORD  1135 1858

children
MONTAGUE JULIA MARIA   JOHN DOOLAN MARIA GUILDFORD  4602 1859
MONTAGUE EMILY             JOHN DOOLAN MARIA YORK  5414 1860
MONTAGUE JOHN              JOHN DOOLAN MARIA YORK  6467 1862

JJ

[debandbill]

Thanks for all the info that people have retrieved from various places - it is staggering that this information can be gained so quickly now. It took me years to gather all of that information from various sources. Yay for the computer age.


I read somewhere - or gathered somewhere that a seton was a bit like a boil or abscess. Certainly sounds revolting - and probably very painful.


I would very much appreciate any information on the census - as I only really thought about that source as I was posting the message last night.

He had a number of children - three of whom JJdownunder has listed. John, Emily, Elizabeth, William,Julia Maria, Robert and Louis. It might give some hint as to which family is the match when looking at census information.

His age seems to be a bit variable - depending on the source. I note that in his first court case in 1850 he  said that he was 24 - even though it was more than a year prior - yet his second court case in 1851 - he was listed as being 23.

The truly crazy thing is that it looks like he was out of gaol only one or two months before he was caught a second time. Penalties sure don't compare with now. The first time he stole four glass bottles and a pair of candle sticks - second time a coat. His punishment was transportation for 14 years. These thefts were done with a friend - who was also transported for 14 years - although not to Western Australia it would seem.

Thanks again.

Debbie

[Decorating rose]

My grandfather John was the eldest son of John montague who was the convict who arrived in Australia in 1842 on the William Jardine.
 

[hanes teulu]

John Montague and James Bryant appeared in Court on 25 March 1851. The 1851 Census was held on 30 March 1851

1851 Census (HO107  1526  377 
John Montague, Prisoner, Unmarried, age 19, Laborer, b. Leith, Edinburgh
James Bryant, Prisoner, Unmarried, age 23, Tailor Journeyman, b. Marylebone, Middlesex
Address - Her Majesty's Jail, Newgate

possibility?

regards

[trish1120]

Good one hanes teulu