Author Topic: Perth Prison  (Read 34923 times)

Offline Isabel H

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,490
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #45 on: Thursday 12 March 09 19:53 GMT (UK) »
Was she from Glasgow? If so, there are two possible entries in the NAS catalogue. Just type in her name and tick the box that says phrase.  http://www.nas.gov.uk/
GRAY - Inveresk; Lanarkshire
LINDSAY - Lanarkshire
PURDIE - Lanarkshire; W. Lothian
POZZI - Elgin; Lancashire
MACKENZIE, MORISON - Stornoway
ARCHIBALD, HAY, HUNTER, SNADDON - Clackmannanshire
COXON, HALL, JACKSON, SHOTTON - Northumberland

Offline jackiesim18

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #46 on: Thursday 12 March 09 20:16 GMT (UK) »
no she was born in kilmarnock but live her married life in dunfermline.

I tried the nas but dind't come up with anything useful most interesting all the same.  Will try again with what you suggest. and let you know

Offline jackiesim18

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #47 on: Thursday 12 March 09 20:25 GMT (UK) »
still can't find her either under eliza or elizabeth fleming or brown.  She was there as she appears in the 1881 census in perth prison.  It may have toremain a mystery why she was there.  thanks anyway

Offline Isabel H

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,490
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 12 March 09 22:57 GMT (UK) »
That's a pity. Our family's jailbird got a mention in Perth Prison Convict Journals. The NAS Reference is HH21/47/4 for one covering 10 Apr 1877-17 Sep 1879. It's a bit early but might be worth a look to see if she was there then.
People were sometimes held in local jails to await trial and transferred to Perth General prison after sentencing. There was a prison in Dunfermline  but I can't find any records. There might be something in the Sheriff Court records or local newspapers of the period.
GRAY - Inveresk; Lanarkshire
LINDSAY - Lanarkshire
PURDIE - Lanarkshire; W. Lothian
POZZI - Elgin; Lancashire
MACKENZIE, MORISON - Stornoway
ARCHIBALD, HAY, HUNTER, SNADDON - Clackmannanshire
COXON, HALL, JACKSON, SHOTTON - Northumberland


Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #49 on: Friday 13 March 09 03:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello jacquisim18,

The 1881 census record for Eliza FLEMING or BROWN in the Perth Prison gives her birth year as ca 1841 and birthplace as Kilmarnock, Ayrshire.

The 1857 records in the NAS are for an Eliza FLEMING, native of Glasgow BUT it is interesting that the age of the 1857 Eliza was 17 - a match for the 1881 Eliza ...

AD14/57/52     Precognition against Eliza Fleming, Robert Speirs for the crime of theft     1857    This record is Open
JC26/1857/205    Trial papers relating to Eliza Fleming for the crime of theft. Tried at High Court, Glasgow    1 Oct 1857

Clicking on the reference numbers takes one to further information.
For the first reference:
Eliza Fleming, Age: 17, Address: Residing with Mrs Duffy, Tentine Close, Trongate, Glasgow, Origin: Native of Glasgow Robert Speirs, alias Campbell, Kenneth; Kilwinning, James, Age: 26, Address: Saltmarket, Glasgow, Origin: Native of Greenock, Renfrew
For the second reference:
Eliza Fleming, Verdict: Guilty, Sentence: Imprisonment - 12 months. Note: Pannel to serve sentence in the general prison at Perth.

Do you have other information (census entries, marriage record) for your Eliza?

Regards,

JAP
PS (Added later): I had a bit of a look and found Eliza 2 with her parents in Kilmarnock in 1841, her marriage to William BROWN in 1856, their children - first two (1857, 1859 in Tradeston Glasgow, the rest in Dunfermline).  William (a joiner b Dunfermline) & Eliza and family in Dunfermline in 1861 and 1871.  In 1881, when presumably Eliza was in the prison, William and 3 children are back in Tradeston Glasgow.
None of this helps with finding what Eliza did which landed her in prison but it's slightly interesting that your Eliza was actually in Glasgow in 1857 ...

Offline mckenzie20

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 17 March 09 11:55 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

Did you manage to find out about your relative who was in Perth prison?

I also have a relative William Brackenridge who was in Perth prison in 1881 but I have been unable to find out why. I have used http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/

Please can you advise of the source that you used so that I can do the same for William.

Regards,

Colin.

Offline amycargill

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #51 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 14:40 GMT (UK) »
I am trying to use the search function on the Archives website to find my ancestor in Perth Prison but the search either won't change screens for me or i get nothing found.

Is there someone who would be willing to check for me?  I feel so disconnected from these records being in the US!

William Thomson
in Perth Prison during the 1871 census
born about 1829

Thank you so much!
Amy Cargill
Cargill, Boath, Menmuir, Hogg, Balfour, Monro, Shepherd, Bannerman, Hutcheson, Rhind, Stewart, Anderson, Duncan, Low, White, McNab, Stirling, Fyfe, Smith, Cramond, Willsone, Brown, Joyce, McPherson/MacPherson,McPhee, MacDougal, Clifford, McCulloch

Offline Jessie Thomson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • curious about the past
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #52 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 15:35 GMT (UK) »
Dear Amy,

Unfortunately my William Thomson was born in 1852 and was in Perth prison for the 1881 census. I know he wasn't there in either 1871 or 1891 because I have his census records for those years too.  Accordingly to a very old family rumour (unsubstantiated) he was there for stealing sheep.

I find the National Archive website almost impenetrable and have wandered about it without success. It is Byzantine in it's complexity.

Regards,

Peter Bolton alias Jessie Thomson

Offline amycargill

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Perth Prison
« Reply #53 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 15:38 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for your reply.  I am glad to know that I am not just being dumb!

Amy
Cargill, Boath, Menmuir, Hogg, Balfour, Monro, Shepherd, Bannerman, Hutcheson, Rhind, Stewart, Anderson, Duncan, Low, White, McNab, Stirling, Fyfe, Smith, Cramond, Willsone, Brown, Joyce, McPherson/MacPherson,McPhee, MacDougal, Clifford, McCulloch