John Sale of Dublin MP for Carysfort

[DebbieG]

Hi - can anyone help or give me any advice where to look?

I am working on a pedigree for a friend,  his ancestry is really interesting,  on his mothers side he is descended from John Sale 1758-1827 who was a fairly famous church musician and taught music to the Royal family.  There was an acknowledged relationship between this gent and the Duke of Wellington,  whose grandmother was Elizabeth Sale the 'eldest daughter' of John Sale registrar of Dublin and MP for Carysfort.  Elizabeth married in 1719 (in Dublin) so was probably born about 1695,  so far I have been unable to find out anymore about her birth family and any brothers and sisters.  I think John Sale the musicians father was another John (1734-1802) married to an Alice,  but I can't find the information that joins the two branches up.

Can anyone help?

 

DebbieG

[WilliamD]

Elizabeth Sale the 'eldest daughter' of John Sale registrar of Dublin and MP for Carysfort.  Elizabeth married in 1719 (in Dublin) so was probably born about 1695,  so far I have been unable to find out anymore about her birth family and any brothers and sisters.

Can anyone help?

 

DebbieG

John Sale was HRH Prince Charles's 7th great-grandfather - and mine too - so one would expect that someone has traced him, but so far I cannot find anything.

I am wondering if you have got anywhere in the past near decade?

[CasparV]

My ancestor too, but remaining elusive.

I can tell you that John Sale married Ellinor, one of 4 daughters of Robert Desminières (1640-1693), a Hugenot settler in Sligo.

Rhetorical question: where did he get his LL.D.?

HTH,
Caspar

[felixquaxer]

CasparV

An edition of Grove's Dictionary of Music dated 1908  gives biographical details of 2 John Sales (father and son)  together with a John Bernard and George Charles Sale.
Gilbert's Calendar of Ancient Records of Dublin has references to Harvey , Isaac , Mary and Walter Sales together with a Robert Saers (alias Sale)
There are references to Desminieres (Anne and Robert), Desminiers (Lewis)  Desmyiers (Mark) , Desmyneers (Cordelia) , Desmyneres  (John)  and Desmynieres (Dorothy, Jane, Lewis, Peter and Tristram)

I have created an index for all 19 volumes of the Calendar . If you would like to receive the references for any of the above names just let me know.

FelixQuaxer

[CasparV]

Thank you for your message. The Dictionary of Music is a surprising source, but I should certainly like to hear what it has on John Sale, assuming it is the right gentleman.

Many thanks for you offer,
Caspar

[felixquaxer]

John (son of John Sale 1734-1802) was born in London in 1758 and was in 1767 admitted a chorister of St. George's Chapel Windsor and Eton College under William Webb and so continued until 1775. In 1777 he obtained a lay clerk's place in both choirs. On July 12, 1788 he was admitted a gentleman of the Chapel Royal in the room of Nicholas Lade (or Ladd) . In 1794 he succeeded John Soaper as vicar choral of St.Pauls and in 1796 John Hindle as lay vicar of Westminster Abbey. At Christmas he resigned his appointments at Windsor and Eton In 1800 he succeeded Richard Bellamy as almoner and master of the choirster of St Paul's . On January 14 , 1812 he was appointed successor to Samuel Webbe as Secretary to the Catch Club and soon afterwards resigned his places as master and almoner of the choiristers of St Paul's . He was also conductor of the Glee Club . He possessed a rich, full and mellow toned bass voice and sang with distinct articulation and energetic expression. He was for 30 years a principal singer at the Concert of Antient Music and other leading concerts in London and at various provincial festivals. He composed several glees (published in 1800) and some were included with glees by Lord Mornington and other composers, in collections published by him. He died at Westminster leaving 2 sons ,John Bernard and George Charles.
   Died November 11, 1827
 
Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians   vol 4 Page 211    (Edition published 1908)


FelixQuaxer