Hawker of pots/earthenware

[cbcarolyn]

so it maybe just to keep everyone on their toes then!  I was thinking it was the family name that they wanted to keep, but makes sense.

[hiyamarra]

Obviously I don't know details about your family, but generally they disguised their names to hide their petty crimes. Most Travellers were poachers etc. and if caught in a different town to their last offence, would change their name.
Have a searched newspapers, they are a wonderful source of info on Travellers.

[River Tyne Lass]

This is very interesting as I have traveler ancestors who used alias names and I have never been quite sure if this was by accident or design.  I have 2 x Great Grandparents called James and Elizabeth Conroy (nee Fitzpatrick) - they did not marry officially in an RC Church until 1859 - 12 years after the birth of their first child.  Some of the job descriptions attributed to James were besom maker, basket maker, earthernware dealer, and hawker.

When I first started looking in to the background of his family I started to suspect that they and other family members were occasionally using the alias names of Gilroy and Kilroy.  I finally got proof of this when I read a court case concerning them in a newspaper and the defence said in court that the jury should understand if anyone referred to Gilroy they were really referring to Conroy.  This was in 1857.

Strangely, James' Grandson - a baby called Thomas Conroy died in the 1880's.  I had such a hard job trying to find any death record of the baby.  At this point the family were in Birtley and there are quite a number of records for them at this Church spanning a number of years - but no mention of Thomas.  Then one day the penny dropped that he might be under the old alias name and I looked again at the death entries and sure enough there was an entry for a Thomas Gilroy.  His death was also registered as Thomas Gilroy it would seem.  I do not know why they might have still be using that alias name by that point.  Surely the priest would have known them to be called Conroy?  Perhaps it was an accident.

My Conroy ancestors are also linked by marriage to the Millers of Northumberland through the line of Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson.

My Great Grandmother was called Bridget Conroy nee McCabe and her Mother's maiden name was Hoey.  Her family came over from Ireland but I do not know if her side of the family were travelers but her husband - my Great Grandfather Simon Peter Conroy's family  definitely were.

[hiyamarra]

Hi River Tyne Lass
Researching Travelling families is very challenging, but very rewarding.
Looking at the family names you follow, Watson, Miller, Brown, Young, Allen are all family names associated with Travellers. You will often find that they married within their own community.
Travellers were very superstitious, and generally always married and had their children baptised. (this is still the case today). If you've found a marriage 12 years after a birth, it may be a 2nd marriage. Have a look for the 1st marriage somewhere like Gretna Green, or Alisons Bank Toll House which were a favourite for Travellers. Baptisms often happened years after the birth, the next time they came to a favoured/lucky church. Often more than 1 child was baptised at a time.
Many genealogists get thrown out by this, as they record the year of baptism as the same year as the birth. This then throws the year of birth out on later census. I have someone on my tree who was 7 when baptised as his mum was in prison 

[River Tyne Lass]

I totally agree, it can be challenging but extremely rewarding.

My two x Great Grandparents James and Elizabeth were described in court as from the 'mugger tribe' and as tinkers.  There is quite a lot to their story as they were involved in a notorious court case which became known in the press as the 'Matfen Murder' !856/1857) and were accused of murdering their landlady with a family of Allens/Andersons.  Personally, I do not believe my ancestors committed this murder but I do have my suspicions about one of their lodgers who was called Michael Allen but in my mind I do not think he was the only suspect.  I think there were others who did not get to court who may also have been suspects.  They were all acquitted on the grounds of not sufficient evidence.  Apparently, there was a big gathering of gypsies outside the court in Newcastle to greet my ancestors after they were acquitted.  In the newspapers I do get a strong sense of prejudice. 
My family were closely linked with the Miller family.  Although, I can't prove it as yet I suspect that Jane Anderson who married Jacob Miller had some sort of family connection to the Anderson/Allen family that my ancestors were put on trial with. 

In my ancestors case, I really don't think it was a second marriage they were both extremely young when they started having children.  I think James was about 17.  Their first child was Mary, then Joseph, Simon Peter - my Great Grandfather, James, John, Michael, Thomas, Catherine and Elizabeth.  The last two daughters died very young.  They married at the same Church their son Michael was baptized at in Stella, Durham.  Their first three children were baptized at St Robert RC Church in Morpeth,  the next two - James and John at St Francis Xavier in Cheeseburn Grange, Michael at the RC Church in Stella, Gateshead, Thomas and the last two girls were baptized in Hexham.

The Brown and Young that I am following feature on my Mother's line of the family (non travelers) - having said that I do believe that my Great x 2 Grandfather's James' brother Joseph married a Mary Ann Allen but under the name of Joseph Gilroy at St Albans, Earsdon.  Thereafter, they revert back to the Conroy surname.   She had a sister in her family who married a Young. 

I am really enjoying reading your posts hiyamarra - these are really interesting and enlightening.   

[hiyamarra]

Hi again
From your user name, am I correct in assuming that you are from the N.E. ?
If so, I'm at the other end of the A69.
Did you know that a mugger was someone who sold mugs. It's one of the earliest mentioned occupations of Travelling families, along with tinklers (the oldest occupation) which became tinkers and spooners who made spoons from bones.
You have to be careful about saying the Millers were a Northumbrian family  I know lots of descendants of Cumbrian Millers, and they all had Jacobs in the family. As far as I know, I don't have any direct ancestors who were Millers, but there is no doubt my ancestors were closely associated with Millers.
I actually believe the Millers were Scottish, and I have provenance that William Miller b1712 in Dumfriesshire, may have been the first Traveller in the family. He served an apprenticeship as a brazier to Andrew Stewart of the Grass Market in Edinburgh from the age of 10. At 15 he left to join the 11th Regiment of foot soldiers. He left the Army in 1745 after probably serving in America (at one time he claimed to be American) and became a Travelling tinkler.
The more you dig into these characters, the deeper you get.

[cbcarolyn]

Obviously I don't know details about your family, but generally they disguised their names to hide their petty crimes. Most Travellers were poachers etc. and if caught in a different town to their last offence, would change their name.
Have a searched newspapers, they are a wonderful source of info on Travellers.

i have searched a lot, but found very little, so maybe mine were not so interesting!  will have to have another go as there are more newspapers all the time.

[hiyamarra]

Maybe yours were goodies  I have goodies baddies and outright scallywags

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi hiyamarra,

Yes, I know you are right about the Cumberland aspect of the Miller background.

Just to give you a bit more background on how my ancestors were linked to theirs - my Great Grandfather Simon Peter Conroy had a brother called Thomas Conroy who married the eldest child of Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson - wife was called Isabella.  Also my Great Grandfather's sister Mary Conroy had a daughter called Elizabeth to her husband William Watson.  This daughter married Michael Miller who was the son of the above mentioned Jacob and Jane.  There is a Margaret Dalton who gave an emergency baptism to one of my Great Grandfather's young sisters before she died.  I believe this daughter to have been a sister of the above Jacob.    Margaret Miller married Patrick Dalton in Corbridge.  I also suspect that the Jacob Miller's sister Ann is linked with my ancestors - she married a Peter Conroy. 

I believe the above mentioned Jacob Miller's parents were Jacob (Wigton) and Ann Miller nee Readhead (Rothbury) and his Grandparents to have been Thomas Readhead and Beatrix Arkle.
The above mentioned Jacob (the younger) was baptized at St Bartholomew in Longbenton but on the entry it is recorded that the family home abode was Gateshead at that time.

I also believe that his wife Jane Miller's parents were Alexander and Isabella Anderson.  Can't remember now off the top of my head but I think her maiden name was Campbell.

By the way, another RootsChatter put this link below on the Northumberland Resources board the other day.  If you look on Earsdon and if you put Jacob Miller in the search box you will see a grave stone for the Jacob and Jane above - also Michael Miller his brother and Sarah Miller his daughter and there is a Campbell.  What relationship she had to the Millers I am not sure about. 

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={07E767B9-6071-47FE-B9B9-DAC9E87A8215}&inv=EA6123BAE2F1E6A&userid={07E767B9-6071-47FE-B9B9-DAC9E87A8215}&inv=EA6123BAE2F1E6A&albumid={3A315EDF-8E88-4861-8655-15F842968DC0}&groupid={78872CB1-0FBB-4682-84F7-86AEE61FF44B}

I already have a photo of this grave from when I visited the cemetery a good while back after having been told about it by another RootsChatter.

By the way, you mentioned on a post the other day about gypsies being very superstitious.  This got me thinking.  Even though, the traveler side of my family seems to stop with my Great Grandfather's generation - (from then on they became coalminers) - I do recall that my family were very superstitious about various things.  I recall us having things like a 'lucky rabbits foot' 'lucky pixie' and my Dad nailed a horse shoe to the wall of the house in a 'U' shape - apparently your luck was meant to run out if you nailed it upside down.  I remember as a child searching for lucky four leaf clovers.  I am not superstitious now, but your post made me recall all these incidental things from my past.

Another little thing to mention is that as a child - it would always be a tradition to go to Morpeth in the holidays.  We would have a picnic, walk around, go to the market and go on the rowing boats.  I have found that my ancestors feature very strong in the Morpeth area and I do wonder if our tradition of going to Morpeth might link back to connections with them.  My parents have both passed on - so too late to ask Dad in particular why it was always a tradition to go to Morpeth and why he seemed to love the place so much.

Oh and yes, I am from the North East.