Hawker of pots/earthenware

[Mike38]

Hi I have just found this site, and you were asking about hawkers, I dont know about hawkers ,but my Gt Grandfather worked the canal boats from Wolverhampton to Stoke on Trent, and carried pots and the like, and his name was William Henry Challenor, he was born 1828

Hi,

yes, I know what you mean about them being mob handed.

My Challenor family had father William, sons Enoch and William, and their families, all hawkers of pots and living close together in Hyde Cheshire in 1841. Son Richard was also a hawker of pots. I wonder if working in groups helped the carrying of their wares much easier? Perhaps they could carry a larger range if there was a few of them.
how interesting that there was a 'Pottery Lodge' in Whitehaven. I've done a bit of research in Whitehaven for my husband's family but not looked at it from the point of view of hawkers before.
Thanks for the information it's fascinating.
Regards
Jean Sandra

[jean Sandra]

Mike,

this sounds as though someone walked over my grave....

My Challenor ancestors were from Staffordshire and were earthenware dealers / hawkers of pots.

They moved north and were found in Furness Vale, Ashton and Hyde but my great grandmother Elizabeth Challenor,  moved back to the midlands and my grandmother was born in Wolverhampton. I have long felt that my great grandmother went to live with relatives in the town of Wolverhampton after her husband (Major Lionel Mills) died in a tragic boating accident but havent been able to find them.

The Challenor family moved to places where canals were being built and I wondered if there was a link.

Your William Henry interests me as William Challenor is a family name. Do you know his history. My 3x great grandfather Richard Challenor was born to a William Challenor from Staffordshire. Richard had a brother William. They were all hawkers/sellers of pots. There could be a link.

Regards

Jean Sandra

[Mike38]

Hi Jean, I have been looking and have found 3 Elizabeths in the Wolverhampton area :- Elizabeth born 1812, another one
born 1831, and another one born, 1857 this one live 3 miles from Wolverhampton A place called Wednesfield, I will see if I can find a Richard later today, but the birth dates are always usefull,  My Gt grandfather William Henry, Married a Mary Ann Pickford, she came from Congleton in between Stoke on Trent and Macclesfield, I supose he met her when they stayed over night in that area, I dont know the full facts, if you have the birth date of Elizabeth, I will try to find more. Mike

[jean Sandra]

Hi again,

many thanks for this, its very interesting.

You say your William turned up at Congleton. For a long time I have thought my Challenor ancestors were related to some in Macclesfield, Amongst them were hawkers too. They also had a Simeon Challenor, my 2x great grandfather was Simeon Challenor but was born in Hazel Grove near Poynton, near Macclesfield, where there was also a canal. His father was Richard, a hawker. The Challenors in Macclesfield included one with a birthplace of Horton in Staffordshire. One of the places Richard said he was born was Haughton in Staffordshire. He couldnt read or write so it could be the same place.

If your family of hawkers was working with mine they would have a large area covered. If yours worked the canal area from Stoke to Macclesfield mine could have worked the area from Macclesfield. There is a Challenor's wharf on the canal at Macclesfield but I don't know its history.

Do you know who your great grandfathers parents were and where they came from?

You probably havent found my gt grandmother's birth as she was born in Hyde Cheshire in 1880. She moved with her family to Birmingham in the 1890s but they moved back to Hyde. In 1891 she returned to Birmingham and married a Major Lionel Mills at Kings Norton register office in June 1893 just a few months later before my grandmother Marjorie Mills was born in Wolverhampton in August 1903. I don't know the details but believe that the baby was sent north to live with her grandmother Jemima Challenor whilst Elizabeth Mills formerly Challenor stayed in service in the Birmingham area. It was the Wolverhampton link that interested me as Elizabeth had no family in the midlands that I knew of and wondered who a young widow would stay with to have the baby. Her inlaws lived in Kidderminster and her own close family were in the greater Manchester area.

Regards

Jean Sandra

[Ninatoo]

My James McCormick was reputedly born in 1835 in England, possibly Lancashire.  He was an earthen ware hawker for some of the time, but he had moved to Scotland by 1859.  Like you I have found it very difficult to trace his movements through the censuses, but his family resided in Glasgow all the while from 1861 -1901, and he only made it home for the first census listed there!

But what is really interesting is that on James' death registration it lists his father Samuel's occupation as a Delf Hawker.  I looked it up and Delf Hawker sold "Delf", which is earthenware from Delft, Holland.  It is that blue and white stuff you see all the time...but I thought I would mention it here because it is another place the hawkers could obtain their goods...from overseas markets!

Nina

[jean Sandra]

Hi Pam,

have you thought anymore about a website dedicated to hawkers/earthenware dealers?

I continue ti find family members who lived around Horton, Horton Hay, Biddulph Moor who were potsellers / hawkers.

Having recently visited the area for the first time I can't imagine why so many people lived in such an isolated area 200 years ago and all selling pots. The families Challenor, Mellor, Booth, Bailey and I think Shufflebottom and Green lived close together all dealing in earthenware and working as a  large family unit.

Perhaps there was a gypsy, tinker element to it but I just don't know. They certainly moved around especially Cheshire, Congleton, Macclesfield, Furness Vale, Hyde.

I think your website sounds a good idea.

Regards

Jean Sandra

[old rowley]

A bit off topic but as tinkers have been mentioned in this thread I thought that someone might be interested in the following. For a while now I have been collecting meanings and origins of sayings etc (I know....... I know  but I get my new anorak next week  ) and one of them deals with tinkers.

"I don't give a tinkers damn/cuss"

This saying comes from the "dam", "plug" or "cuss" that a tinker used when repairing leaky pots or pans. A piece of bread (known as the dam/plug/cuss) was chewed and placed as a bung over the hole to be repaired. This was to stop the solder from running through the hole. Afterwards once the hole had been sealed and repaired the bread was thrown away, therefore the saying means "nothing more worthless than his (tinkers) dam or cuss".

old rowley

[Boongie Pam]

Hi Jean,

I haven't had a chance to do anything yet - it will be after May now (exams) but more than willing to collect info together from everyone.

P

[jean Sandra]

Hi,

good idea they did seem to operate out of large families / groups. They seemed area specific too.

Regards

Jean